Spiritual Warfare Pt. 2

[00:00:08] Speaker A: Welcome to that's a Good Question, a podcast where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. If you or someone you know has questions, please submit them to roundthetable.co questions. Hey, welcome to that's a Good Question. My name is John. I serve as host. I'm here with my friend Logan. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Good to be here. [00:00:34] Speaker A: And we are here for round two, talking about spiritual warfare. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Round two. Give us some questions. Lead us in. [00:00:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, last time we talked about some things that the Bible says about spiritual warfare, we wanted to get a really clear lens and not just talk about this abstractly, but talk about what the Bible says. We focused in On Ephesians, chapter 6, the armor of God that the Lord gives us to fight against spiritual warfare. So we're going to continue talking about that this time and also get into more listener questions and talk a little bit about practically how is it that we put on the armor of God and do this battle. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Is this a common question that we get? [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. About spiritual warfare? Yeah. Yeah. I would say, yeah. Quite frequently people ask some kind of question about spiritual warfare because it's one of those topics that I think. I think it's actually important to recognize that it's one of those topics. The Bible doesn't give us a ton of really clear answers about it, but. [00:01:24] Speaker B: It does point to it. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:27] Speaker B: It does say, oh, this is very real, but it doesn't explain it out like a textbook would. It doesn't give us all the answers. I kind of think it's one of those topics similar to eschatology, End times, Revelation, which we touched on last episode. It's one of those conversations that if Christians are sitting around long enough, they will talk about it. We will bring this up. If you're around a bonfire for a few hours. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:52] Speaker B: Someone will bring out the Antichrist, or someone will talk about spiritual warfare and demons and angels, or the end times. Like, these are conversations that we have. We want to have, and yet we want some guidance from the Bible on how to have it. [00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So I think the question we really want to go after this time is how do we fight and win the spiritual battle? And I'll start by saying this. I think the first key to fighting and winning the spiritual battle is knowing that you're in it. You know, you don't know that you're in a war, then you're going to lose that war. Right. And I think that's. We actually did a sermon series at Peace a bunch of years ago, and I think we called it the War we ignore. Yeah, which I think is a great title. [00:02:31] Speaker B: I think we did it once and then we did it again. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we brought it. Done that a couple times. Yeah. But I think it's a great title because it's just that it's, you know, and it really is kind of a invisible war. Right. It's, you know, the angels and demons are things that are at work, but not often seen visibly with our eyes. We see results, we don't always see them. And so, you know, it's. Because you don't see it every day, it's really easy to forget that you're a part of it. You and I are part of a spiritual battle every single day. [00:03:00] Speaker B: We have a past episode on angels that I actually think of as a very helpful resource that I really appreciated our conversation on that. But I do think that the step one for sure is to recognize the Bible presents these, these ideas as something that's non negotiable. It's happening. It's all around you. You're in this battle. There are flaming darts coming at you. And you do have the equipment to fight against it, right? Yeah. [00:03:26] Speaker A: And that equipment is listed in Ephesians chapter 6. Lists out each piece of the armor of God, says, the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shoes of peace, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, and finally, our offensive weapon, the sword of the spirit. All right, so we've got to put those on. So how exactly do we do that? As you look at each of those pieces of armor, I think what we see is items that help us fight specific attacks of Satan. One of the things that you see several times is truth. Right. The belt of truth, the sword of the spirit, is the word of God, which is our ultimate source of truth. Right. So one of the key attacks of the enemy is lies or deception. And so how do we fight the lies? We fight them with truth. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think I forget who wrote the book, but pretty sure it was Puritan. I saw it for sale at the Reformation Heritage Bookstore. But it's just this giant book, the Christian incomplete armor. [00:04:30] Speaker A: That one. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. What's his name? He has a cool name. Anyway, you can talk so much about this passage. And I think one thing that as I've. I have read things about it, different theologians and people that have studied it deeper. One thing that is interesting is we, we often when we think of a armor like medieval, we think like European medieval. And that's not necessarily the type of armor that Paul would have been Familiar with that he would have been using as an illustration. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Ancient Roman. [00:05:01] Speaker B: A belt isn't just something that looks cool. Like it actually serves a huge purpose to hold everything together. And so there's something to say about, like the first thing he brings up and it's a belt. Truth is you, you have to have it there and there it holds everything together. If you have an. If you have a chest plate of righteousness, but it's based on a lie, or you have a helmet of salvation but it's based on a lie, then it's not good. Good armor. Like, you need to have the truth. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Sure. [00:05:29] Speaker B: To have this all hold together. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, the truth is what defines righteousness. Right. If you've got the wrong moral compass, then you don't really know what righteousness is. So you've got to have the truth. [00:05:37] Speaker B: In order to know that Jesus is the way. The truth. Yeah. The life. I think of when he says that you will, if you are my disciples, you will follow my word. You'll know my word and you will know the truth. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:50] Speaker B: And the truth sets you free. Right. So it's, it's, it. I think it's not a coincidence he says it first. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So to that point, I mean, I think we're going to sound like you're going to say, wow, you know, I've heard this a million times. But we'll say it again. Reading your Bible every day is central to the Christian life. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:07] Speaker A: That's how you fight against lies, is by having the truth in front of you all the time. It's amazing how easy it is to lose sight of what God says when it's not in front of your face all the time. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Because there's a lot of things in front of your face all the time. [00:06:22] Speaker A: Sure. [00:06:22] Speaker B: Like we brought up the world, the flesh and the devil. Like there's. There is a desire in your sinful flesh and by demonic forces to distract you, to put things in front of your face, to shape the way you view the world differently than how the Bible would want us to view it. So the biblical worldview isn't just some kind of cheesy thing we talk about. It's like, oh, no, it's. It's one of the most paramount things in the Christian life is to have a Christian worldview about things. About all things. [00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:54] Speaker B: To be biblical about it. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah. It's also amazing how many people, you know, use the Bible and abuse the Bible. You know, you could have a lot of things in front of your face, even of people Saying, well, this is what the Bible says. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Satan does it. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Really? [00:07:06] Speaker B: That's what he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:07:08] Speaker A: So you, so you've got to put the actual Bible in front of your face on a regular basis and have some good voices in your life, hopefully primarily through your church, that are helping you rightly understand God's Word. [00:07:20] Speaker B: I, I do think I, I like when people have like pastors or preachers they listen to. And I, I, I, I, I think it's good, it's a good habit, a spiritual habit to listen to sermons. I think that's a good thing. That's actually one of the primary ways that Christians have worshiped throughout human history is because we're saying, go read your Bible. But in really we're saying is know your Bible. And it doesn't have to be that it's you reading every word, though. You have the ability to, and a lot of humans throughout human history haven't. And it's a really awesome ability and opportunity that we have to read it. And yet because most people haven't been able to read or have the opportunity to do so, they've listened to the exposition of God's Word, they've listened to preachers. And so I do love when Christians have the habit of listening to sermons. When I first got saved, I, my hobby was to listen to sermon. Like I listened to a sermon every day. Like I love when people have that as a habit and they have their preachers. But I love more when someone says, well, my favorite preacher is my pastor. Yeah, or when they say, well, before I listen to so and so, I'm going to listen to this past Sunday sermon again. Or I'm going to listen to an old sermon series like that. I think that should also be a major kind of flavor of your spiritual habits if you're into listening to sermons. [00:08:35] Speaker A: Totally, totally. So one of the, so we just said truth foundational holds it all together. Next piece we can talk about the breastplate of righteousness, the thing that protects the most vital organs of your body, your heart, righteousness. So what is righteousness? How does it protect us from the evil one? Righteousness, in short, is living according to God's design. Right? It's what's right. True. Just what is good, which first and foremost, we know that by nature we are not that only Jesus is that we get Jesus's righteousness by his grace. When we put our faith in him as Lord and Savior. He takes our sin, we take his righteousness. [00:09:18] Speaker B: That's the breastplate we have access to. [00:09:21] Speaker A: Yes, Yeah. I think we can see it in two ways. So I'd say number one, the breastplate that ultimately protects us is Jesus's righteousness. But I think. And we can talk about that. But I think also number two, it's true that we grow in righteousness after being saved. [00:09:34] Speaker B: Well, are you going to walk around in it? Like, are you going to actually live it out if it's been given to you? Right. Like that righteousness that we have access to, Are you going to be like him? All those. You're going to be going to follow the Holy Spirit? Are you going to make him upset, not follow him? [00:09:50] Speaker A: So I think one of the things that sounds a little bit strange about, about that is like, seems like the fight is to do righteousness. How can righteousness be part of the armor that protects you in the fight? [00:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great. [00:10:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so it seems strange, but as I think about it, I think about actually, like the multiplying effect of, of seeking to walk in righteousness. That it's like the more, the more you walk in sin, the deeper you get. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker A: You know, it has a compounding effect. Whereas I think the more you're walking closely with the Lord, the more you kind of go that direction. [00:10:23] Speaker B: I have a few thoughts to that, too. Like, I, I, I. There's an old quote I heard that, something to the effect of, like, never let someone belittle you for your piety. Like, it's that same idea of, like, the Christians that are not walking according to the Spirit will be most upset at the Christians who are. It's, it's what we're called to do and called to live and do. I, I remember our church did a sermon series on Ephesians, Armor of God. And I, I'm pretty sure I was preaching at one of our campuses and you were preaching at the other. I think it was you. That also was the same sermon. We never exchanged notes or anything, but we were talking about the breastplate of righteousness. Did you ever preach on that recently? I'm sure, yeah, there's a few pastors. We all split up the different pieces. I just remember making the point of your armor that you can create based on your own righteousness. You can do it, but it's not going to protect you against the arrows coming out. [00:11:22] Speaker A: That's your cardboard armor held together by a duct tape. [00:11:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I got. Versus what God is able to give us. And then when he gives it to us, we're meant to walk in it. We're meant to actually use it and. And live into it. [00:11:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. So when the accuser comes at you, you hold up the breastplate not of your own righteousness, but of Jesus's righteousness to say, Satan. It's totally true. I think a passage like Micah chapter seven, it's a. It's a great passage to read. I know that sounds like an obscure one, but Micah chapter seven kind of goes through this. The prophet confessing Satan is accusing him, and he can. He's confessing. Yep. You're right. I am a sinner, and yet I have righteousness given to me by God. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:08] Speaker A: And that's my. That's my real defense. [00:12:10] Speaker B: So I want to go to. I kind of want to talk about confession with this a little bit, because part of confession is confessing your sin. Confessing my righteousness is not enough. Confessing. I have. I have built poor armor with my righteousness because I have sin in my life. And confessing that sin and being. I remember moments in my life where brothers in Christ have come up to me and said, I need to confess something, and not even sins against me, but just in general. It's like I can. [00:12:34] Speaker A: When you were a priest and you. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Had regular confessional, I can just feel the freedom. I mean, like, it's. It's so potent for Christians to confess sin to one another. It's basically saying to the accuser, who's pointing at the sin, saying, this is all you are. It's pulling the blinds up and open the door and be like, no, it's not all I am. And there's light in this room now. And you can't hold this over me because I've given that to the. To Christ on the cross. Yeah. Confessing our sin and confessing our faith. We did communion this past Sunday. We confessed our faith together in the Apostles Creed and then worship through communion. I think of confession being connected to righteousness because it's. It's almost like us putting the armor on through confession, like confessing. I am not capable of producing a better armor. I need this armor, lest I die. Right. And to then confess the faith of. This is. This is all I got. This is what I. This is the. You know. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:32] Speaker B: The good news that I have access to this righteousness of Jesus. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Totally. Well, I made that joke on purpose, actually, because I think that's the temptation for Protestants, for us, when we hear confession is that we're tempted to think, well, that's a Catholic thing, and we don't participate in that. But actually, the Bible tells us to confess our sins to each other, not in the way that the Catholics do. And we've had episodes where we've talked about that, but we are supposed to confess our sins to each other. Actually, Martin Luther, the reformer, even talked about how he continued to practice confession in a different way, but he practiced confession, confessing his sins to brothers in Christ because he said, that's just like a helpful part of the Christian life to confess. I am a sinner. Here's how I've sinned recently. And help me hear the gospel, Read me some scripture, Help me hear that Jesus has taken away these sins and be reminded and assured of God's grace in that way. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Yep. Love it. What's the next piece? [00:14:25] Speaker A: The Shield of Faith. [00:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm actually writing a message right now for something I have tomorrow night with our young adults on doubt. One of the points I'm kind of wrestling with, and this is maybe a little off topic, but I think relevant to just this idea of faith is I think of a few things in the Bible. One, you can't please God without it. There's something central to it. I think of doubting Thomas. What? [00:14:53] Speaker A: That was Romans 14 here. [00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I think of doubting Thomas. He doesn't doubt. So it's a bad nickname. It's a non biblical nickname he rejects. He says, I will never believe this unless I can feel the wounds in his side. So he's not doubting Thomas, he's doubting, rejecting Thomas and then thank God, he sees Jesus. And I think one of the best actually passages of where we see doubt is great commission. They go and worship him. But some doubted. Yeah, the ones doubting are the ones worshiping. And so faith and doubt are not opposites. Our faith is who we are ultimately relying on, who we're ultimately depending on. Our doubt is like an emotional piece, like parts of our flesh that either it's too good to be true or because the accusations of Satan are in the back of our head. But what decision are you making? What? Which way are you going to ultimately go? Who are you going to ultimately depend on? And it's the ones worshiping Jesus despite the doubt. [00:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah. We're tempted to not believe what God tells us on a regular basis. [00:16:07] Speaker B: That doesn't mean you don't have faith. Sure, yeah. [00:16:10] Speaker A: As long as you fight against it. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:13] Speaker A: You know, so some in recent years, and maybe even for a long, long time, have presented doubt as a destination. And it's not a destination. It can be a temporary thing that you pass through and not to say that you won't have multiple doubts throughout your life. [00:16:30] Speaker B: And you might have the same ones kind of. [00:16:31] Speaker A: And the same ones might recur. But. But my point is to say that you. You can't live saying, I kind of believe this. [00:16:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:40] Speaker A: But maybe not really. You could. You can. You go through seasons which you say, do I believe this? And yet you ask the question, do I believe this? And let's think about that. Let's explore that. But doubt can't be the final destination. It's something you pass through in order to get to a destination of a conclusion. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I. Classic example. But I have faith in this chair. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Sure. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Because I'm sitting in it. Like, I'm actually leaning on it. I'm depending on it. My weight is on it. Yeah, that's. That's a picture of faith. I'm actually, I actually have faith. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Well, yeah. [00:17:12] Speaker B: In the chair. [00:17:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You. You might. Before you sit down, you have some faith and some doubt. Right. You have. A certain amount of you believes that that chair will hold me. A certain amount of you might believe it doesn't. But then you sitting down is you making a conclusion. I believe that this chair is going to hold me, therefore I sit down. [00:17:27] Speaker B: I think, Yeah, I think I heard that we were at a. I think at last episode, I was like, we were at a conference together and heard this. So I'm saying that again, we were at a conference together, a different conference and heard this. I think it was Kevin DeYoung. He said, it doesn't matter how strong your faith is when you stand out on the ice. It matters more how strong the ice is. It doesn't matter if you are wavering a bit. It's like, are you on the ice or not? Right. Is the question. Yeah, yeah. I think of Lord, I believe, help my unbelief type of prayers. [00:18:01] Speaker A: Totally. Well, so that's the thing. So if you know. So if there's the belt of truth, if there's truth, we have to have it, we have to know it. Then the shield of faith is we have to continue to believe it. And it's easy not to. You know the oldest temptation, the oldest sin in the Bible, Satan comes to Eve and tries to say, did God really say? And he causes her ultimately to doubt that God is good. Right. Ultimately, Eve ends up believing that. Yeah. Isn't it wrong and messed up and unfair that God created this one tree that I couldn't eat from? He must not be good. He must not really have my best interest in Mind, he must not really love me completely. Maybe I would actually be better off if I was God. You know, that's like. And that gets to the root of kind of all of our sins. And so the shield of faith is regularly continuing to believe and trust what we know about God, that he is who he says he is. He is good. He's our Father. He loves us. Because that's the. That's the piece that Satan wants to kind of drive the sword into and create a. Create a gap between what we know and what we believe. You know, we've heard the Bible say that God is good. We've heard God's design for one man and one woman for all of life. You know, we've heard these things. But do I believe it? [00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:21] Speaker A: And will my actions reflect it? [00:19:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so next up, we have the helmet of salvation. [00:19:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:27] Speaker B: What do you think of when you hear that phrase? [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So helmet protects. Right. Our mind, very important part. And salvation. God's saving us. God's grace to us, like we've been talking about already. We have to continue to know and believe that our salvation comes from God. We don't earn. It comes by his grace and his salva. And that. That truth is what our mind needs to continue to remember to fight against Satan's schemes and deceptions. [00:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Your head's a pretty important part of your body. [00:20:02] Speaker A: It is. It is a pretty important part. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Yep. If you lose your head in a battle, you lost. So, yes, I get why he's bringing that up and tying it to salvation. As far as the imagery goes. Right. Yeah. And throughout all of these, like, apart from me, you can do nothing. Like, all of these are. It's the armor of God. It's his. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:25] Speaker B: That's God's have the. He puts out. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:27] Speaker B: To have. Right. [00:20:29] Speaker A: So with the time we have left, I'd love to answer some more questions that have come in from people and get even more specific. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess I would just conclude with all the Ephesians 6 stuff and the verses we're bringing up as far as, like, practical spiritual warfare. We're in the battle, we're in the trenches, bullets are flying, and we are being accused and disoriented and distracted and beat up. So Paul uses that language of there's a lot against us, and yet the tools we have from this armor, both offense and defense, we see. We think of things like reading your Bible. We talked about knowing truth. You got to pick something like be in a Bible study, listen to sermons, read a verse, a Day, like any of these things are good. We talked about confession, making it a habit to have accountability relationships where you actually, just like you. You have a good friend in. Someone who asks you, hey, tell me how you've sinned recently, or. Or a friend that, you know, you can go to and say, I need to confess some sin in my life. Yeah. And can we. Can we pray together? Or something along those lines? Like, that's the kind of relationships we should seek in Christian community. We need Christian community. That's, in a sense, how we fight. If you're a soldier out in the open by yourself, you're gonna die. Like, we need to be together and to follow the imagery. And then prayer. I think. I think in one case, Paul uses prayer specifically as a solution against anxiety. Philippians 4. Like, yeah, you're anxious. Pray to God. Yeah, give him all of it. First Peter. Right. He cares for you. And that should be a habit in our lives as well. Just pick something like have a habit of it every day, wake up and pray. I think you mentioned something like that. [00:22:11] Speaker A: Well, and that's the. That's the last couple verses of the past passage on the armor of God. That's how it concludes. It says, you know, it's. Well, here it is. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what we do. Like, yeah, we should make it a habit in our lives to just ask for prayer more and not think that's weird, because that's what Christians do. We should see it, like breathing. I shouldn't go a day without doing this multiple times. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And for me, I would say, I don't know if this is normal for. For everybody. So sometimes I like to share this just to help people understand. You know, prayer doesn't. Isn't always going to be on your knees, eyes closed, hands folded in a prayer closet or in your bedroom or wherever. I think having some of those very focused times of prayer is great, but I think for me, a majority of my prayer is I'm, you know, walking between meetings or I'm driving in the car or whatever, and I'm. And I'm just having kind of an open conversation with the Lord. Sometimes it's very short, sometimes it's longer. I think some of those long, isolated times of prayer are really good, but that's just not all the time. [00:23:14] Speaker B: And. [00:23:15] Speaker A: And the Bible tells us to pray continually, so just kind of all the time. Kind of an open. An open mic between you and God. You know, it's just. [00:23:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Awesome. Listener questions to wrap up. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, first one. How does mental health relate to spiritual warfare? [00:23:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a big question. [00:23:34] Speaker A: That's a really good question. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Thanks for that one. Yeah, I. I think that mental health relates to spiritual warfare because that's one of the ways Satan can attack us is through our mind helmet of salvation. Right. You mentioned that's protecting our mind. You know, depend. Having assurance of our salvation. I've heard it said that anxiety in some ways is a psychological or philosophical atheism or practical. Practical atheism. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, it's. I'm anxious. I don't fully believe the Lord is working all things together because that would mean the best things and the worst things are being worked together for good. And I have all this worry and anxiety. But it's not just Paul. We referenced Philippians 4. It's not just Paul saying, don't be anxious, but pray it's Jesus. And that's a hard thing to swallow because Jesus saying, don't be anxious. Yeah, well, I feel anxious. I can't really help the panic attack I'm in right now. In one way that I think mental health and spiritual warfare can go an even layer deeper than I'm sure some people are thinking of on different. You know, there's a spectrum to how people fall into this. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Well, I'll add, since you're. Since you're getting more specific. Which is. Which is awesome. I'll add. So here's. So this was me kind of boiling down a few different questions that came in. So, yeah, so I think people asked about, from what I remember, three basic categories. One was. Is, yeah, anxiety and spiritual warfare. Depression and spiritual warfare. And then. And then somebody actually asked about Tourette's warfare. So those are the three that. I'm boiling it down. [00:25:10] Speaker B: And you could even get more specific. With all sorts of struggles that we as fallen humans deal with and struggle with. I was just going to go with, like, I think one deeper layer to this is not just the symptoms or the struggles that we go through, but how we respond to them, I think can be severe spiritual warfare. The lie that I just hate because it hurts so many people is thinking I have these mental issues and therefore I need to go to a counselor. And that's the only avenue I have. And whatever pills that counselor gives me is the only avenue I have. And that's the battle. It's in a room with one person who hardly knows me and is not a part of my community. That's my. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Maybe he's not a believer. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So what we need to bring to the conversation is what are all the counsel, like, sources of counsel you're getting? And is the word included in that? Are Christians believers who are in your Bible study included in that? Right. People that you pray with and confess sin with? And you're in Christian community with a more holistic picture of connecting, Not. Not setting this off to the side and saying, well, that's for professionals to deal with. As if it doesn't. As if our mental health doesn't have just deep connections with all of our other spheres of health, of spiritual health and emotional health and physical health. Like, all of these things are connected. Yeah. And so the conversation, I think, should go less towards, like, well, let's talk about the. You know, because we're not. We're not mental health experts. [00:26:44] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:44] Speaker B: But before we even. And there's beneficial stuff to all of that. But before we even go there to just have the conversation of what do we call. What's our purpose as humans? What is our. What are. What are our spiritual habits in general? And, yeah, it's the isolating that conversation that I think is another layer of danger. [00:27:02] Speaker A: That's always my advice when people ask me this. I've had people literally just say, you know, pastor, I'm struggling with anxiety. Do I have a demon or should I go to the doctor? And I'm like, well, those are some, you know, those are some big extremes. Let's, you know, let's talk about that. So I think, yeah, holistically, I think, is a great word. So can doctors have their place in this? Absolutely. Can medication have their place in this? Absolutely. But also Christian friends, Christian counselors, pastors, all have a place in this as well. So, yeah, if you're dealing with, you know, one of these, you know, one of the many things that can fall under the category of mental health, can that be a physical, chemical imbalance? Yes, it can. But can it also be a spiritual attack? Yes, it can. Can it be some of both? Absolutely. You know, I think that's the thing is, I think it's just a little too narrow to try to say it's one thing or the other, and it's only that. [00:28:00] Speaker B: And there's. [00:28:00] Speaker A: It's usually like one combination expert, you. [00:28:03] Speaker B: Know, source to get healing from at the church has nothing to say about it or do about it. Yeah. [00:28:08] Speaker A: Right. Or the opposite. Right. To Say, oh, this is, you know, if you've got. If you're dealing with depression, then you've got a demon and the doctor has nothing to do with, you know, that would be. That would be the other extreme. That is not healthy either. So, like, you just got to take all of the aspects into. Into play. [00:28:24] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. So that with the question that would be like, my concern is, well, one way it can be spiritual warfare is by isolating it as something that's disconnected from your spiritual health. [00:28:36] Speaker A: Right. So how does it relate? I think our short answer is it relates. Yeah, it's a part of it. And we wouldn't want to minimize it in one direction or the other. Take it all into consideration. Yeah, it's a great question. [00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Without getting too far into the weeds of that. That could be its own episode or series. So why. [00:28:58] Speaker A: Here's another question. Why don't we see people on a regular basis casting out demons like Jesus did in the New Testament? [00:29:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a great question and I think we somewhat answered it in the first episode, Part one, when we were talking about. Well, given our context, it's. It's most likely not a wise move for Satan to make right to be possessing people the way he did in the first century. [00:29:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:28] Speaker B: Or in maybe other parts of the world. We've heard stories of missionaries that are similar to that, you know. Right, yeah. [00:29:35] Speaker A: What's I was gonna say is, I think. Yeah, I. So we don't see it as frequently as it seems to be presented in the New Testament, although there's a couple things I'll say about that. One is that, you know, whenever you've got a recording of. Of history, of things that happened, you know, what you're getting is like the highlights. Right. So, you know, there's plenty of. There's plenty of days in the New Testament that a demon didn't get cast out. So, you know, you want to be careful on just saying, well, the New Testament is full of those stories. It is, but those are, you know, the story itself is. Is the highlights. So did it happen a lot? You know, a lot more than now? Yeah, it seems like it, at least in our experience. But like we've already said, that depends kind of on what part of the world you're living in. Can it still happen now? Absolutely. [00:30:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm going to take this question and kind of back up and be more. Just looking at all the things we've said. One thing I feel like we have brought up and we could go deeper in is the confessing your faith part. Right. Like, our testimony and the power of that. And I think that that in many ways is one of the practical ways we can fight and avoid possession and oppression. You know, Revelation 12:11. And they have conquered him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives, even unto death. Confessing our faith and sharing our stories and our testimonies and, you know, examples of God's grace in our lives is spiritual warfare, and that is us fighting and winning. [00:31:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:31:09] Speaker B: And so when we then talk about spiritual warfare, even to the point of, like, exorcism, the Bible is saying the most dramatic, powerful moment isn't in the. Away with you, you know, like, but it's in the, well, here's how Jesus saved me, brought me from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. And there doesn't need to be a crazy dramatic testimony for that to be the most powerful part, because that. That is going to be the most dramatic, powerful part of every testimony. Yeah. Regardless of if you. [00:31:41] Speaker A: Well, that's pretty much exactly what Jesus says to the 72 when they come back to him. Remember, they. They go and they say, lord, we cast out demons in your name. And he says, that's great, but the most important thing is that you've received salvation from God. [00:31:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Jesus started his ministry. He didn't go around saying, repent, I can cast your demons out. Right. Saying, repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. Yeah. [00:32:05] Speaker A: I would say that I have never had the experience of, you know, doing what would, you know, be called an exorcism. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:11] Speaker A: But I have many times prayed with somebody and say, lord, cast Satan away from this person. Protect them from Satan's attack. We pray in Jesus name that you would cast away all, you know, evil forces and that you would protect this person from the evil one and help them to, you know, walk closer with Jesus. You know, I've prayed that prayer with people many times. [00:32:29] Speaker B: I've prayed that with people. I've prayed that over myself in moments. [00:32:32] Speaker A: Of. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Severe anxiety or depression or just fear in my life. Yeah. [00:32:38] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. So, so many great questions that we've gotten a chance to talk about related to spiritual warfare. Thanks so much for sending them in, everybody. I know there's so much more that could be said, but it's been a blast to get to try to address the questions that have come in. So thanks, Logan. Thanks, everybody. Have an awesome week. [00:32:55] Speaker C: Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone today. [00:32:59] Speaker B: You can follow. [00:33:00] Speaker C: That's Good Question. And find more episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. That's Good Question is brought to you by Round the Table, a ministry of Peace Church in Meadowville, Michigan.