Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Hey, everyone. Welcome to that's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and Resound Media. You can find more great content for the Christian life and church leaders at Resound Media cc. That's Good Questions Place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm John. I can serve as a pastor as well as a host of this show. You can always submit questions at peacechurch cc.
Questions. Today, I'm here with Mitch.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm the other guy on the podcast. And last week we had a great conversation with Carl Lafferton about, uh, better ways to disciple our children and resources on how to disciple our children. It was a great conversation. If you didn't listen to that, I highly, highly, highly recommend that you go back and listen to that. It was awesome. It was great having him on. Today we are fielding some questions about the part of the Bible that maybe we're not super familiar with or maybe a little bit uncomfortable with, and that's the Old Testament. So let's jump into our first question. It's this.
It. Okay. That I only read the New Testament. Yeah.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: You know that first part of the Bible, a little tougher, little longer.
Just stick to the new stuff. Right? Yeah.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: It can be uncomfortable. Can be way.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
No, no. So, you know, if you're. If you've just become a. A believer, a follower of Jesus, you know, you're just getting started, then. Yeah, yeah. Start with one of the gospels. I. I always recommend starting with the Gospel of John. Read that all the way through.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: Get to see Jesus walk and talk. Get to know sort of firsthand your Lord and Savior. I think that's a great place to start. But then you got to get into the Old Testament. You can't just have the New Testament. Actually, you know, if you were to, you know, put your finger in your Bible, where the Old Testament, New Testament separate, you'll realize that actually the Old Testament is the much larger part of the story before the New Testament comes. So the Bible would be a lot shorter if you just had the New Testament.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: But there's so many reasons that come to mind. So, you know, I think of if you were just trying to read the New Testament without any Old Testament background. You sort of. You open the Bible and you just hear the story of Joseph and Mary and this guy named Jesus. And I can only imagine thinking, who are these people?
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: What is going on? What's the problem that's trying to be solved? You know, you hear the story of Jesus dying and then rising, but why.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it's almost the, you know, the New Testament is an answer to a problem.
The problem that's set up in the Old Testament. So if we miss, we miss the Old Testament, you just hear an answer. Right. And you know, it's almost like jeopardy where it doesn't make sense, where you're only hearing the answer, you know?
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, where did these people come from? Where did any of us come from? You know, what, what is the origin?
You know, what about the Adam and Eve story and realizing, you know, sin is the problem in the story. That's what Jesus came to saw. You know, you read John 1 and you hear John the Baptist refer to Jesus as the Lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: Okay. What, why is he a lamb?
You know, who's God?
What's the sin that we're trying to take away? You know, you don't have the, the background of understanding the problem, understanding the sacrificial system.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: And how that all works.
So much going on in the Old Testament that you have to, have to understand the story.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And this can be a kind of a popular belief. A well known author and speaker, Andy Stanley says that Peter, this is a quote from him. Peter, James, Paul elected to unhitch the Christian faith from their Jewish scriptures. And my friends, we must as well. Again, I wanna say that's the end of the quote. Um, I wanna say that's a quote. That's not me saying that. Uh, he says basically that we must unhitch our Christian faith from the Jewish scriptures from the Old Testament like Peter, James and Paul did. That's what he's saying, man. What would you say to that?
[00:04:15] Speaker B: Well, for I, I was already, I was already sh. Before you finish the quote, just hearing him say that Peter, James and Paul had unhitched from their Jewish background, I would disagree with that entirely. I think if you read the Book of Acts, if you read the letters of the New Testament, these are guys who are deeply rooted in the Jewish scriptures, the Old Testament, who are wrestling through how do they continue to be faithful to what God said in the Old Testament as well as now live in light of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. I, man, I mean, that's what the New Testament, that's what most of the New Testament letters are about, is, is figuring out all that stuff. And the answer for them wasn't to jettison all of it and to say, all right, you know, just forget all that stuff, we're moving on. The answer was to Figure out how did Jesus fulfill what was going on in the Old Testament?
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: How do we continue what was going on there with this now really important point in the story of Jesus.
Of Jesus.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So what are the potential consequences of adopting this line or this thought into our theology as Christians?
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, one of the most common things related to this way of thinking that you hear, and this is an ancient heresy called Marcianism, named after the guy named Marcion. But I. But you hear this all the time, popularly from people. If you talk to unbelievers about the Bible, you might hear this. That the God of the Old Testament was mean.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: And evil and wrathful. And the guy of the New Testament is a really nice guy.
You know, you hear as if they're two different gods, two totally different stories.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: Well, that's what Marcian believed. He really believed that Yahweh was the evil God of the Old Testament and that Jesus came from an unknown father to save us from this. This Old Testament deity named Yahweh, which is crazy. But we've adopted that a lot into modern Christianity. It's crazy, right?
[00:06:05] Speaker B: Well, one of the ways that you hear. I hear it a lot is in relationship to hell.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Talk about. Yeah. The God of the Old Testament, you know, that God who believed in. In wrath and hell versus the guy New Testament who's really nice and kind and sweet.
What I want to say to that right away is, have you ever read the New Testament?
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Have you ever read the Gospel of Matthew and listen to what Jesus has to say about hell? Actually, Jesus talks more about hell than anybody else.
Huge topic that Jesus talks a lot about. Paints it in a very poor light, you know, fire gnashing of teeth. Yeah, man. I mean, Jesus has some pretty harsh things to say. I think people just skip over those parts. I think people who are saying that haven't actually themselves read the Old Testament or the New New Testament, then you.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Get to Revelation and all hell breaks loose. Literally.
And.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: And it's.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: Jesus is carrying a sword.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Pretty. I would say pretty wrathful. And that's. That's a good thing. We want God to be a God of wrath who's against sin. That's a. It's a good thing theologically.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
So just so I read an article today as well, on thinking about. As we were thinking about this episode, thinking about going back to what Andy Stanley said, you know, very popular pastor. I mean, this is a guy who has a huge platform. This was just a few years ago that he said this I. So I pulled this up as well. And there's a few other quotes that I think are worth sharing that he said. Yeah, here's one. In that same sermon, he said, the Bible did not create Christianity. The resurrection of Jesus created and launched Christianity. Your whole house of Old Testament cards can come tumbling down.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: Jeez.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: The question is, did Jesus rise from the dead? And the eyewitnesses say he did.
Oh, that's quite the line.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Yeah, man.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Old Testament house of cards.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Tumbling down.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: That's pretty hard to get behind.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Yeah, totally.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: So on the one hand, there is. There's some truth in the sense that Christians throughout the ages have said that the resurrection. Belief in the resurrection of Jesus is kind of the distinguishing mark between an unbeliever and a believer. So, you know, historically, we have said believing. You know, there's so much more that we as Christians should agree on that the Bible teaches, but that agreeing on the resurrection of Jesus is one of the foundational things.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: So. Sure.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Just, you know, to give a little bit of. Of context that historically that is something Christians have said, but. Yeah, but not to the exclusion of all the other things.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we've always, always been forward that the resurrection is one. Is like the linchpin of. Of our faith. And yet we'd never go and say, well, then nothing else matters. As long as you believe in the resurrection, that's good enough.
That's not. That's not what we're about.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Well, that line, the Bible did not create Christianity. So, you know, he's been criticized for saying that Christians need to unhitch from the Old Testament. But what I'm really hearing is more like unhitched from the Bible.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: As a whole, I think. I think that's really what's going on. And.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: Yeah, well, he's been a proponent of saying that the Bible isn't inerrant, that he's saying said things before criticizing Christians, you know, really strong belief in the Bible and basing our faith from that. So it's kind of consistent with his.
His preaching. Yeah.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Here's a man. I've got a couple more. More quotes. Here's one. So this was.
This is on his church's website, written about the sermon. Here it is. This is kind of how they. How they advertised the sermon.
If you were raised on a version of Christianity that relied on the Bible as the foundation of faith, a version that was eventually dismantled by academia or the realities of life, maybe it's time for you to change your mind about Jesus. Maybe it's Time for you to consider the version of Christianity that relies on the event of the resurrection of Jesus as its foundation. If you gave up your faith because of something about or in the Bible, maybe you gave up unnecessarily. Oh, man, that hurts to hear.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Yeah, that's just, that's silly. You know, if we believe that God's word is literally from God and yeah, the Bible should be something we base our faith around.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So one of the. Yeah, so we've already said that. Number one, you're, you're losing the story. You know, even just some of the, you know, you're. He's. He and that statement from the website are, are stealing from the Bible while devaluing the Bible. You know, they're talking about how Jesus can save you, how Jesus can be your. How Jesus rose from the dead.
They're talking about quote unquote, Christianity and yet trying to throw out the very story of Christianity. You know, you don't have all, you know, you're, you can't get there from here. You know, you can't throughout the Bible and hold on to the resurrection as well as all these other things we're talking about. So there's that I would also hear another important argument would be okay if. Because what you're trying to say is let's follow Jesus but not the Bible.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: So I think a question you've got to ask then is would Jesus accept those terms?
[00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Is Jesus okay with that? And there's a very clear no. If you read the story of Jesus in the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Jesus is all about the Bible.
You can't say to Jesus, Jesus, I love you, I want to follow you, but I don't care anything for the words that you say.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: The Bible is God's word. Jesus word. And so, you know, imagine trying to go home and husband say that to your wife. Sweetie, I love you so much, but you know, the words that you say, I just don't want to hear them. I just don't care.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: You know, just let me know how that goes for you.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: I think it's gonna go well. Who said that it doesn't go well for them?
[00:11:35] Speaker B: They end up in our offices.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, right.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah. To talk about that.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a, there's an article on Resound you that explains that. It talks about what did Jesus believe about the Old Testament Scripture. Just about scripture in general. And it, there's a book that, that elaborates even more. It's a little bit academic. So the article is probably easier read, but everything that Jesus did in his ministry is affirming Old Testament scripture, Old Testament authority of Scripture, believing that this was inspired by God and that this was God's word.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Right. As Jesus argues with the Pharisees and other people, he is constantly referring to passages in the Bible and he even goes so far as not just to refer to ideas, concepts, but he refers to specific words or even the tense of words. I think of when he's, when he's making that argument about the God of Abraham.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: And he. And he argues from the tense of the word that this is the God of Abraham. You know, presently, not just in the past. You know, Jesus had an incredibly high view of God's word. And at his time, by the way, the Old Testament.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: You know, they didn't have Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. When Jesus is, is preaching and teaching, he's talking about and quoting from the Old Testament.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, even when, like, even more minute things you look at when he goes to a festival. Right. He is, he is celebrating something that happened in the Old Testament. When he is affirming the idea of a messiah, he's affirming something that was prophesied in the Old Testament. When he's affirming covenants, when he's affirming the law, when he's affirming anything, when he, you know, all of his actions are proving that he said he's basing who he is and what he's about to do squarely in the Old Testament and that the Old Testament was God's authoritative and inspired word. Yeah. You know, amen. It's a silly argument to say that Jesus didn't believe in the Old Testament.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: It really is. It is. It's a very silly argument. And I think from what we've seen from, from, from preachers who are trying to remove themselves from parts of the scripture and sort of say that follow Jesus but not the Bible. I think they're really trying to get away from the countercultural parts of the Right. What the Bible might say about sexuality or gender or, you know, whatever limitations on what people view as freedom. You know, we'd make the argument that real freedom is following God. That's where you're going to find real freedom and joy.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: But the way they would perceive it as limitations on, on what they want to do, they want to get away from that and sort of portray a Jesus that is always affirming and forgiving. Although honestly, when they, Whenever, whenever I hear somebody say that. Well, Jesus, it's okay because Jesus will forgive you. I think you're missing that. Well, forgiveness only becomes, only comes because you've done something wrong.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: So they're really getting at more affirming than forgiving.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: And it's, it's kind of just a silly thing. Like if you're not going to base your belief in scripture, like what, who is Jesus anyways? Like, what, what Jesus is it? Right? Like how do you know?
Like, is it, is it some Hispanic guy named Jesus? Like it could be at that point. Because how do you understand who this person is? If you're not finding him in scripture at some point, you have to base it back to some authoritative text. Otherwise it's just this concept and that's could be anybody.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah, totally.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: So just to highlight again that this is still a, a problem going on today, you know, we've already given some quotes from a pastor just said this in the last few years who's very popular.
Additionally, there are some, some branches of, of the modern day church within.
So this is a, this is a topic we've talked about on the show before, but dispensationalism is a, is a type of theology.
And this, you know, certainly not true of all dispensationalists that they, that they would do this. But there are some dispensationalists, some, some groups within that, within that larger group that would even say that the Old Testament is not relevant. There are some that would call themselves even Pauline only dispensationalists. Or I've encountered prison epistle, only dispensational. So people who say that only parts of only the New Testament or only parts of the New Testament or even only parts of the New Testament written by Paul while he was in prison are relevant to the Christian today.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Yeah, those are just.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: But those things are going on. So you just got to be aware that you might encounter people that have this view.
It's not what Jesus would have endorsed, it's not what we believe scripture says. But you got to know that those things are floating around here. So real quick, just a few passages from God's Word itself that I think are really important and point to this. So you know, when we're sharing the gospel with somebody. John 3:16 is a very important verse.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: I think right after John 3:16 is another important 3:16 verse. It's second Timothy 3:16.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: So here it is.
All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness. That the man of God may be complete equipped for every good work. And remember, the Apostle Paul is writing that, as you know, the New Testament is still coming to be. So he is talking about the Old Old Testament.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. What would be lost if we abandoned the Old Testament? Like some of these, these pastors would want us to do. And I mean, and some of these, I mean, it's an ancient heresy. It's not something new.
It's. It's been around for a long time. But what would we lose if we abandon the Old Testament?
[00:16:52] Speaker B: We'll be right back after this break.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Elizabeth, one of the co hosts of Mom Guilt, a podcast with new episodes every Monday. Mom Guilt is a podcast about the daily struggles of motherhood. Stephanie and I share real experiences of Mom Guilt and how we have found freedom from that guilt through the gospel.
Listen to us on resoundmedia CC or wherever you find podcasts.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Well, let's talk a little bit about one of the major themes of the Old Testament, which is the theme of covenant.
So a covenant, I've said before, is a relationship sealed by promises. So you think about when, you know, when you get married, you've got a relationship with somebody, then you seal it with promises. You're saying, I do. You know, for, for better or for worse, for richer, for poor, for in life and in death.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: So a relationship sealed by promises. And that's what's going on in the Old Testament, is that we've got the story of God and his people and that covenant relationship between them. And we see laid out blessings for being in the covenant. You know, things are gonna, you know, God promises to have relationship with his people, to give them life.
He also promises curses if you stray from the Lord, the chief among those being death, if you stray away from the Lord.
And so, you know, one thing that you lose is you would lose the entire context of the story of the Bible. You know, the story of the Bible is that of the covenant relationship between God and human beings and how we have broken that covenant. We've. We've strayed away from God, and so therefore we deserve the curse of death.
But the good news of the gospel is that Jesus comes, he fulfills the covenant in his perfect life. He pays the price of the covenant. He takes on the curse of death so that we can put faith in him and receive the blessings of the covenant, eternal life. Yeah, so just, I think that's one example of, of a theme probably, you know, the one, maybe one of the biggest, most structural themes in the Old Testament and how, I mean, that's the story of the Bible, that's the story of the Gospel. That's, you know, that's, that's the whole thing.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah, B.B. warfield, he's a now deceased, but pastor and theologian. He had a quote that said, I think it was B.B. warfield. If not, we can correct it, but we'll correct it. In the show notes. He said the Old Testament is like a living room, dimly lit, and the Old and the New Testament is like the same room but with the lights turned on. It's, you can make glimpses, you can see things outlined.
But the New Testament now illuminates everything. It's still one story. It's still the same story overall, but it's, it's now a little bit clearer and we'd miss that. The beauty of, of the New Testament without that in the Old Testament.
What are some examples of how the Old Testament points us to Christ?
That idea of the, the lights being turned on, that we can see glimpses of it, but now we see it clearly in the New Testament.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
I'll just try to give a couple pictures here quickly. So jump back towards the beginning. Jump, jump to Genesis 3 and think about, you know, Adam and Eve, sin against God. Then in Genesis 15, you have the first declaration of the gospel, what we call the proto evangelium, the first declaration of the gospel that human beings are now at war with Satan and that eventually a hero will come and he will be defeated, but in his defeat he will have victory. And so, you know, you just go back to that thing. And that's what we see throughout the rest of the Old Testament. We see the story of. All right, you know, is, you know, is Cain going to be the, the seed of the woman, the one who's going to be the hero? No. We find out that Cain is, is a, is a sinful man who murders his brother. That wasn't the seed, you know, that was, you know, King David. Is he going to be the one who, who fixes all things and, and, you know, brings us back to God. Well, David is a man after God's own heart and he's great, but he's still a broken, sinful person. He sins against God, adultery, murder, and then all along the way until we finally get to Jesus, who is perfect, who does die for our sin, who does conquer death. Through his defeat, he has victory and has ultimate victory over sin and death and he saves his people.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's almost like the whole story of the Old Testament. Is that, you know, is it going to be him? No, it's not him. Is it going to be him? No, it's not him.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: You read the, you know, you read the Kings, the story of the different kings.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Oh, man. Or the Judges, and.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah, the judges. Yeah, right, man. See, all these leaders rise up and you're. You're hopeful, but they turn out to be broken, sinful men even. Finally get to one. Yeah. Moses. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Just. Just to name some more themes here, you know, I think of the story of Abraham and Isaac.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: You know, God. God calls Abraham to go up on the mountain and to sacrifice his son out of obedience to God.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Yeah, his only son.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: His only son. That's right. You know, we could think of another story that sounds a lot like that story of God and his son. And by God's grace, a substitute is supplied to take the place of Isaac. Now, in the story of God and his son, his son is the substitute.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: For us.
Yeah. We can see all these. These themes that God lines up in the Old Testament and fulfills in the New Testament.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a children storybook Bible that tells that story. And I can't read it to my kids without tearing up, you know, reading the end where it connects it to Christ. And it's like, you know, another, you know, another day or in the future, there would be another father who asks his son, or another son who carries up wood on his back, does not struggle. And, you know. Yeah. Oh, man. It's just. It gets me, but just because I'm a wimp.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: But, you know, those are the right feelings to have about that story.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I think it's beautiful. I think we would, you know, we would miss it and to see.
I think part of the reason that we love the Old Testament is it shows us that God is the same.
Theologically, we'd call this the immutability of God, but it's that God does not change that. He operates the same way all throughout scripture because it's one grand narrative. It's one grand story. Yeah. And it's beautiful to see those themes.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: God is unchanging and the story is continuous.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:59] Speaker B: Not two separate stories. One story. Not two different gods. One God.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
And he acts the same way. That's the beauty. Yeah. We did. We talked about this before we hopped on the podcast, but I thought it'd be fun to pick out a passage in scripture and to. As pastors, to show how we can pick out pointing the Old Testament to Christ from even some, you know, stranger or just, you know, different passages in.
In the Old Testament. So I've got one. Are you ready for it?
[00:23:29] Speaker B: I'm ready. I don't know what it is.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: It's from Exodus 40. It's where Israel is commanded to. To resurrect, or not resurrect, but to put up the tabernacle.
A place where.
Where God.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: The design for the tabernacle.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's, it's instructions, it's. It's. Could be seen as fairly boring, but it's instructions on how to put up the tabernacle. How would we connect that passage to. To Christ.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, great. That's a good one. That's a really good one. Yeah. Because it's one of those parts of the Bible that we might think, oh, man, this is, you know, this is boring stuff. And this doesn't apply anymore. Right. The tabernacle has come and gone. You know, then we have the temple and that's coming. Gone.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: So I could see. Yeah.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: The first half of Exodus is like, whoa, that's great. It's fun, filled with, packed full of action. And then the second half is kind of like this, you know, what do we do with the tabernacle?
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Yeah, right, Totally. Yeah. So lots of thoughts. So one is, you know, just realizing the purpose of the tabernacle should make us think of. Of Jesus and think of God's grace to us, that the purpose of the tabernacle is for God to come and live with his people.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: Which is amazing. You know, you got sinful, broken, rebels against God, and yet God decides in his mercy to come and live with his people. Here, build a tent, and I'm going to come and dwell in it right with you all. You can come and visit me, you can come and talk to me, you can come and make sacrifices, worship me.
So that's amazing in and of itself. Obviously, that should point us to Jesus. Think of in John, chapter one, the Son of God came to dwell amongst us. Or actually that word is tabernacle. He came to tabernacle amongst us. You know, Jesus is fulfilling what the original purpose of the tabernacle was. So as you read the latter half of Exodus there and you hear some of the specific designs going on in the tabernacle, each of them should point us to a different, you know, attribute of God or especially something about Jesus. You know, we think about the altar, we think about the mercy seat, we think about the bread. You know, there's just so many different aspects in the design of the tabernacle that point us forward to Jesus and that, that show us something about who God is and about how he interacts with us in his grace.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And even beyond the cross, going to Revelation. Right. The, the. The imagery of.
Of a new Eden. Even better. Eden, because that's a lot of the imagery is tied to Eden, the Garden of Eden. You see, one day that we're going to dwell with. With God forever. And that's just beautiful.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah, I love that. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah. So, you know, the back and forth. So tabernacle point back to the garden, forward to Jesus.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: Forward even further to the new heavens, the new earth.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's like we were supposed to dwell with God in Eden.
We had a temporary solution with a tabernacle. Jesus came. He was our. He dwelled on earth. He was the incarnate God. And then eternity, future, we're going to be able to dwell with him forever. Yeah. It's beautiful, right? Like, I don't know, maybe I'm just a big Bible nerd, but how can't you fall in love with that story and just see how God is so consistent? And you see the.
Just the, the beauty throughout all of.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: That one story that gets better and better, clearer and clearer.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: All right, Pastor Mitch.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: All right.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: I got a passage for you.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Sweet.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: This should be on our ordination exam. This is what we should make pastors do. We're just open the Bible, give them a random passage, explain how it fits into the story of the Bible.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: All right, here, here we go. Genesis 17. I'll start reading in verse nine, just a couple of verses.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: And God said to Abraham, as for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you, throughout their generations. This is my covenant, which you shall keep, you and your offspring after you. Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins. And it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.
All right. Circumcision.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah. So they were marking themselves as different than the people surrounding them. And that would be a mark of the covenant that God made with them. Right. So this was going to make a people group, a group of. Of people for God set apart for God.
Um, and so the idea of circumcision is. Is actually a sacrament of the Old Testament. It's one of the two that they practiced. And it's similar today. Uh, we practice two sacraments. One is baptism the other is the Lord's Supper. But baptism is the one that replaces the idea of.
Of circumcision and that we are people set aside. Um, we are part of God's new covenant community, not a nation, but really the church. And the idea of circumcision in the, in the New Testament, we. We need hearts that are circumcised. We need hearts that are transformed from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh. And that's only done by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. And that's only done and can only be received because Christ went to the cross and he was the fulfillment of. Of that covenant, that he was the true Jewish person and that he died in order to give us a new mark marked by. By baptism.
[00:28:26] Speaker B: Amen. Yeah, Amen. That's it.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Alter out the prophets. Circumcise your heart.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: Circumcise the foreskin of your heart.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: Yeah. It was an outward sign in the Old Testament, the New Testament. It's not about just an outward sign, but it's about being transformed, right? Yeah.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Sign a sign of cutting something away, taking something away, being washed, cleansed, taking away your sins, that you can be with God, which is man. Right at the heart of the story of the Bible.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a beautiful thing, this, this idea. It's, you know, the, the theological word is that it's biblical theology. It's tracing one idea throughout the entire Bible. You can see it. There's lots of these like that God is glorified when. Through both saving and judging. Usually if you look at any time that there's salvation, there's also judgment, right. In. In the. In the garden, right? When man sins, there's judgment both upon them and the serpent. But also God saves them. He doesn't kill them like he said he was going to. He says, you know, that death will come, but that they will be cursed. Instead.
You look at Exodus, right? The people of. Of Israel, they cross the sea, they're saved through.
Through God's saving work.
As across the sea.
[00:29:41] Speaker B: Noah in the ark.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Yeah.
[00:29:43] Speaker B: Judgment. The flood is judgment on most. It's. But it's salvation for Noah and his family.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: Yeah, Yep. Salvation for the Israelites. Judgment on the Egyptians.
That theme is all throughout the book of.
Book of Joshua where there the people are being saved as they.
They kick out the Canaanites. You look at the exile, that there's judgment and salvation there.
But then you see that on the cross. And the most beautiful thing is that Jesus is. Saves us and he's the one who is judged in our place. Yeah. Kind of the pinnacle of that. Yeah. Yeah. And then you see it in Revelation, too, that there will be people who are saved and judged.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Well, hey, for everybody listening, I hope that this has been a great chance to just remember the incredible value of the Old Testament and how that is something that we cannot walk away from as Christians, not to mention the Bible itself. You can't follow Jesus without God's word and all of God's word. All of God's word.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Yeah. We hope your takeaway from this is that you would go to the. The Old Testament, you'd read it, you would help you worship even deeper, knowing that this is all part of one grand story. Yeah.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Amen. Awesome. Well, hey, thanks for listening, everybody. We hope you have an awesome week. Do us a favor and subscribe. Click follow. Like on social media. Have an awesome week.
You can find. That's a good question at ResoundMedia, CC or wherever you listen to podcasts.
