That's a Good Question Live – Sports, Communion, Immigration, Spiritual Warfare & More

[00:00:08] Speaker A: Welcome to that's a Good Question, a podcast where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. If you or someone you know has questions, please submit them to roundthetable.co questions. [00:00:24] Speaker B: Okay, Ryan, I picked this one especially for you too. We had. We're a week away from the Super Bowl, a big Sunday in America, and this question came in. I think it's interesting. It says, what do you think Jesus's view is of the culture of sports and of being a sports fan in America? [00:00:51] Speaker C: What. What is. What do I think Jesus's view is of that? [00:00:54] Speaker B: Yes. [00:00:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:55] Speaker C: I mean, I hate to project what Jesus would think of modern day things. [00:01:01] Speaker A: But he would be alliance fan. [00:01:03] Speaker C: He'd be a Lion's fan. I think he'd probably see. Let's just be honest, I think he'd probably see a lot of idolatry. He'd probably see a lot of misplaced zeal. I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying sports, but I think there is something to be said about the amount of energy and attention it consumes the American populace and particularly those Christians who get distracted. I mean, let's. It's. It's kind of low hanging fruit, but the notion of man, I wish, I wish people would get as excited to share the gospel as they do about the Lions potentially making the playoffs. That's always a thing. But I think you'd probably see idolatry. I think you'd also see. I don't, I don't like. I don't want to say I don't like the question. People can ask what they want. It's hard to answer questions like that. Like what would Jesus think of these modern day things? Now I say that and we're looking at, in the fall doing a series called what would Jesus Do? And then looking at some of the hot topics of our day. But I think Jesus would probably call out some idolatry is my first thing. [00:02:09] Speaker A: I think that's a great answer. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with enjoying some entertainment, but obviously can go too far and become idolatry. [00:02:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:17] Speaker B: All right, well, let's keep rolling here then. Let's see. This is a good one. Some questions about communion. We took communion today, so question came in that I've heard on stage here at peace. Someone must be a member of a church in order to take communion. I've also heard that someone needs only to love Jesus in guarding the communion table. What is peace's stance on who is allowed to participate? [00:02:46] Speaker A: Yeah, good question. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Maybe give a little Context for people who don't know about that language of guarding the table or why some people are allowed versus not allowed, maybe even some more general context there. [00:02:58] Speaker A: All right, so First Corinthians 11 is a passage that gives us a warning about coming to the table. And so as pastors, elders, shepherds in the church, we want to just make sure that we're properly leading God's people to the table. And so we try to provide really careful instruction about, you need to know the gospel, you need to love Jesus. And in our. Our minds also, if you know the gospel, if you love Jesus, then you should also be part of a church. So I think the first thing in my mind is just that, really, there shouldn't be such a thing as Christians kind of floating around, not connected to a church. The New Testament writers wouldn't have known such a thing. Right. They're always writing to churches and leaders of churches. The New Testament assumes that any Christian is a part of a body of believers, that they're not out there just kind of me and Jesus Christ all alone. So I think what we would say is, yes, come to the table if you have a relationship with Jesus, but you should also be a member in a church and be in a healthy relationship with your own elders if you're not a member of Peace Church. Because historically, that's always been the way that church discipline is carried out, is that we try to perfect. There we go. Is that we try to. [00:04:12] Speaker C: Church discipline. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Church discipline, yeah. Is often exercised in relationship to the table. So we want to make sure that we're doing that well as a church, but also supporting other churches that are doing that for their members if they come and are here with us. Yeah. [00:04:26] Speaker C: I think part of that question there was some of the liturgy we've used in the past that was confusing to people about the language of having to be a member here or somewhere else. We've tried to adjust that language because not every church necessarily practices membership in the formal sense that we do, but it doesn't mean they're not actively involved in, you know, committed to that local body. The notion being just that, that you are Christian, you're taking seriously what you were doing. You're pursuing a genuine faith, knowing that Jesus has made us holy, making us holy as we pursue a righteous and true faith in Jesus. [00:04:59] Speaker B: All right, this one just came in, short and sweet. Can Christians practice yoga? And if so, can we see some of your best moves? [00:05:10] Speaker C: No, I added that if you try to see some of my best moves, you'll Find out real quick. I do not practice yoga. [00:05:16] Speaker B: This is a great question. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Nate and I created a rule about when we go to visit middle school youth group, they're not allowed to remember that one time they asked us to do yoga moves in front of and. [00:05:24] Speaker B: We said, no, no. So, but maybe elaborate a little bit more. What do you think? That's the question. Can Christians practice yoga? [00:05:34] Speaker C: Yeah. So I know Christians who do practice yoga. And I think the concern comes when, when we think about the ancient ties of yoga to especially like Eastern philosophy and meditation and those sorts of things. And are we opening ourselves up through contorting our body and thinking deeply about things other than God? Are we opening ourselves up to some negative influence, if not even demonic? The notion of Christians spending time stretching and getting our body to be, to be able to be healthy obviously is not a bad practice. But the notion of yoga, I, I, that's probably the best I can answer. I can give. I don't know much about it. John, I know you love yoga. You've got a yoga mat. You spend time in your office doing yoga. [00:06:23] Speaker A: None of that is true. Just so we're all clear. None of that's true. [00:06:27] Speaker B: But now we all have an image in our minds. [00:06:30] Speaker A: I'm sorry for that. I didn't put it there. It's not my fault. What I always say, People ask that question a lot, actually. What I always say is I just wouldn't call it yoga. If you want to do stretch as a Christian, maybe you even call it Christian stretching if you want to, but there's nothing wrong with stretching. That's great. But if you talk to people who are really into yoga, they will tell you that it is rooted in Eastern religion, that it is not just stretching, that it's a religious experience. So that's the thing. Can Christians stretch? Absolutely. I wouldn't recommend even calling it yoga necessarily, just because that's, that's its roots. [00:07:08] Speaker C: That'd be a conversation because I know some people who are actively involved in yoga and they would push back on that saying, like, well, that's not why I'm doing it, but the notion of being of, okay, well, what is happening? What's the focus? You know, is there music going on in the background? How does that produce an environment that may or may not be godly? [00:07:27] Speaker B: Right. All right. Another one that's got a little bit Peace Church specific here. They've encountered that we don't dedicate infants here at Peace Church. So they're asking, do you think it's wrong to dedicate your infant instead of infant baptism, which is what we do. [00:07:49] Speaker C: So me and John have very early work that we're compiling on a book on infant baptism to help the church understand something that we think has been lost throughout time. Especially, especially in. In the. In the Western minds hyper emphasis on a personal relationship that's devoid of any sort of communal aspect. Which is why the notion of membership and being connected. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:13] Speaker C: Seems so foreign to so many Christians. But to go back, is it wrong to do. Was the question, is it wrong to do better? I mean, I wouldn't say it's wrong to do it. I would just say let's just go the full step and like, let's actually make this a true covenantal experience between a family, the church and the Lord. The notion of saying, this is the child God has given to me and I'm going to raise this child in the knowledge of the Lord. Clearly that's. Yeah, that's a wonderful thing to do. I just think that there's. There's a more formal and true spiritual aspect that could be embraced for the house and for the home, for the family, for the church, with, with infant baptism. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Right. Our goal is not to condemn somebody who's done that infant dedication. So if you've performed that with your kids or whatever, not here to condemn you for that. But we would say that the practice prescribed by the Bible is infant baptism. So the Bible doesn't give us infant dedication. That's not something the Bible talks about or that we see in the New Testament. I think that's kind of a practice that modern Western individualistic in our culture has kind of created in place of infant baptism in some places. You know, it's really new in the history of church history to do not infant baptism. That's something new since the 1500s. And so I think infant dedication is something that's kind of come in to take that place. But yeah, I think what we see in scripture. We've got an article that's available online about this that I had the privilege of writing. But we go back to the Old Testament and look at God's covenant signs. Circumcision in the Old Testament, Baptism in the New Testament was always applied to children as well as to adults when they came to faith. We believe that happened in the Old Testament should also be happening in the New Testament. There's a lot more we could say about that. [00:10:01] Speaker C: I know some people might point to in Luke where it says that Jesus was dedicated as a temple. But what they fail to read is that by Doing that Jesus received the sign of the covenant at that moment was still circumcision until Christ had fulfilled all the practices of the old, ushering in the new. That is something I think people often point to. And it's like, well, what was happening in that dedication is that Christ was receiving the true sign of the covenant in the old covenant through the old law. Now he's ushered in the new, which I don't know why God would preclude children when they were included prior. And so there's, again, there's much to be said about it. And I think all of us here on the stage, and I'm sure people out there, we've got heroes that we look up to who fall on different sides of this biblical discussion. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:47] Speaker C: And I mean, we love guys like John Piper. We've learned immensely from them. And they're heroes of ours. They see things differently. So for us, it's not, it's not a salvation issue that would cause us to break fellowship, but it is an important discussion. I mean, we're talking about the covenant and who's. Who gets to receive the sign. And so that's why we, we land firmly on this. But we want to be charitable with those who've seen things differently. [00:11:10] Speaker B: Yes, that's good. Well, this next question I'm going to ask, and normally I'm just hosting this thing, but I feel like this is more directed at me. I might be wrong, but it's a great question. But I, I'm guessing it's in reference to something I said from the stage. But a question came in. Are mothers who have had abortion always victims, regardless of how the baby was conceived? And I'm guessing that that was asked in light of we just had Sanctity of life Sunday. [00:11:38] Speaker C: Hold on. They are our mothers who had abortions always victims? The victims. Yeah. [00:11:42] Speaker B: I think it's probably in reference to something I said in a prayer on Sanctity of life Sunday, because I, I did reference the evil abortion industry and our prayer for it to be dismantled. And I referenced the. We always. On Sanctity of life Sunday, we always reference. Because we know, I know of several women in our church who have had abortions, some multiple abortions. And I know that there's, I'm sure, more that I don't know of. And so we always pray for them and make sure that they know that we don't condemn them and that there's grace in Jesus Christ like there is for all of our sin. The reason I use that language, and I definitely could have been more clear. But I think once you start to study the history of modern abortion as it is, the irony of kind of the pro choice movement saying it's a women empowerment movement is that it's traditionally men who are pushing abortions the most who are typically pushing women. I didn't mean to say in any way that there's not responsibility on behalf. That's a choice that and you talked about today in your sermon, Ryan, the Bible, clearly laying out personal moral responsibility for our choices, for our sin. I just think that that's one of those areas, I think, because I've. I've gotten to walk with women through that and I've just interacted with so many mothers. I think it's a thing where it's a very foreign thing for a mother to make that decision for their own child. And I think there's a lot of evil pressures and some nasty underlying worldview that has been spread that leads to that. But I think we're all responsible for our own decisions and our own sin. If that wasn't what that question was. But I actually thought a lot about that after it because I think I could have been more clear in how I said that. But I don't normally get a lot of questions in for me, so I just wanted to tackle that one. Right, let's keep going here. This one, we've gotten several of them. I'll just read one of them instead of trying to summarize all of them. But this one came in. One thing I've been struggling with is the immigration enforcement. My question would be along the lines of how does the Bible teach us to view immigration and immigration enforcement? So clearly, lots going on in the news right now. Lots about ice. Minneapolis has been in the news. Would either of you like to start? [00:14:26] Speaker A: I'm happy to start with some thoughts. I mean, I think whenever you come to a tough topic like this, you want to just kind of in your mind think of some specific passage or general principles that the Bible teaches. And so there's probably many that we could talk about that apply to this, but a couple off the top of my head that I think of right away, I think of in the Old Testament prophets, an emphasis that they have is on two things, justice and mercy. I think a passage is like Micah 6, 8, do justice, love, mercy, walk humbly with your God. And I think of kind of those two ideas, justice and mercy, that seem like they compete, but in the Bible they go together and they both have to be there. So we've got Justice, Right. We believe in the rule of law, that there are laws, that they're good, that they should be enforced, but there's also mercy, compassion for people. We care about human beings because they're made in God's image. And so we want to care for them well, but part of caring for people and having compassion on people generally is also enforcing laws in order to protect people. So both of those ideas coming into play. So as you think about those, and again, I just wanted to kind of kick off the conversation with a couple of thoughts. But I think as Christians, right, we're people who believe in justice, we believe in rule of law. And so as a nation, we have laws about how you come into this country. You can come into this country legally. If you come in not legally, then you are breaking the law. That's a criminal act. And so we have to uphold the law, enforce the law. And at the same time, we believe in compassion, that the people who are doing this are human beings. And so we want to treat them well while we're in that process of justice. And I think it's also important for us always to remember if somebody's coming into this country illegally, it's still legal, it's still wrong. That's a crime. But we remember that the reason they're doing that is because this country is great. And unfortunately, the country they're coming from is probably not so great. Right. So we have in mind just the painful situation that they're coming out of in the situation that has led them to where they're at. [00:16:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's a red hot issue. And I can't even sneeze in the direction of this conversation without people on both sides getting all up in arms. It's really hard to try to speak any sort of meaningful words when things are so heated and people filter anything you're saying through their immense, polarized, polarized viewpoints. I remember I was in Mexico doing mission a few years back and I was in Tijuana, and I just spent two weeks in Mexico dealing with helping people who were just destitute, poor. And I was on the beaches of Tijuana and I could. I could see America. Like, I could see the border. I could see America on the other side. And it. And I was just thinking to myself, yeah, if I lived here, I'd do everything I could to get over there. And I'm not saying it's right. I'm not condoning it, but I am saying, like, it has compassion in me, that if only five miles is the difference between a place with no hope and no future and a possible future for my family. I can understand the draw, and I'm just saying that because I want to be a person who's filled with compassion, not on the flip. I'll be the first to say America does not have the resources to welcome anyone and everyone who wants to come. Everything that's been built over the last 250 years would come crumbling down real fast. Now I say that from a point of privilege, from being born and raised here, but that's just a simple fact and a reality that something is happening here in the history of humanity that's extremely unique and extremely beautiful and it needs to be protected. And so I want to find a way that we can have better immigration systems where people can get through a process faster, not feel like they have to circumvent it. And I think our, you know, I don't want to get into political about what administrations did a better job and that sort of thing, but I want to echo what John said. We can never ever lose the fact that we're talking about real human beings who are just as valuable for the Lord as we are, who Jesus died for just as much as we've died as he died for us. And so I just want to, I want to say, yes, we need to enforce the laws because they're established for a reason and we need to always view people with compassion. Listen, there are people who want to come across the border who have extremely nefarious intent and they need to be removed fast. There's other people who I think just are trying to find a shot at some, some sort of life that has hope, both but, but regardless, we have to have a process that's, that's couched in laws that still views people with compassion. And like you're saying, John always need to treat people with compassion through those lens. And I get, things are heated and ice is getting just, I mean they're, they're being told they're the modern day Gestapo and people are whistling in their faces and throwing stuff at them. And I've seen them be pretty rough with people, especially men with women, which, the way I was raised, that was always a no, no. And so that, that's where, that's where I think there's some of the things. I had a conversation with a woman a few days ago who was like, man is, is ice Rome? Like are we Christians in the first century in his ice, the Romans? Like how do we, is that, is that where we're at. And it's just kind of like this is, this is what people do, right? They want to put themselves in prior point in history to try to figure out what, what would they do then? This isn't 1st century Judea. We're not in 1930s Germany. We're in 21st century America. We got to figure out how we're going to respond to the problems and the troubles that are about us now. Needs to always be couched in love and compassion without forsaking justice in the law. [00:20:01] Speaker B: Right. This is a question that uses some language that's relatively modern here. But the question came in what would you say to a person who's turned their back on Christianity because they've experienced religious trauma? I don't know exactly what that would mean, but you'll hear people talk about church hurt or trauma in the church. What have you encountered that? How would you generally address that? [00:20:31] Speaker C: So that word trauma is such a loaded pregnant statement. Are we talking about church hurt where people gossiped about you, which can still be very painful, or did you suffer some sort of real grievous sin against you? I mean, we're talking about some, some real hurt. And both needs to be handled with grace and charity. But radically different situations can need radically different conversations. And so for those who are extreme extreme, who've experienced trauma, I'll just try to thread the needle and just split the difference between the two and just say, this is why we hang our hope in Jesus and we need to look to him and we bow before him and we look at the trauma that he experienced on our behalf and trusting that the justice that Jesus has endured on the cross has earned our salvation in the midst of that. This is why we focus on him and our salvation is found in him, not in the people that we go to church with. And so again, that's, that's like a pastoral question that I'm hesitant to give a blanket answer in this sort of forum because I wouldn't want the person who's asked that, who's experienced some deep trauma to feel. I'm glancing over and just saying we'll just get over it and come back to church because Jesus loves you. We're not saying that. We're saying that's a pastoral question that I think you should set up a time to talk with a pastor or elder and discuss maybe some of the background and go from there. Johnny, you want to add. [00:22:03] Speaker A: Totally agree. I'll add is that I think it's common for us to look at people in the Church and say, well, that person doesn't look like Jesus, therefore Jesus and Christianity is bad, or I don't want any part in it. But that's maybe a unique thing about Christianity is that those of us who are Christians are professing that we are broken sinners and that we're here because we need the Savior Jesus, and we're inviting you to come and receive the Savior Jesus as well. You know, we're not here saying we've arrived, come and join us and arrive with us. It's the opposite. We're saying that we are broken, sinful people and come and join the club, you know, and so, yeah, yeah, again, you know, if we're talking about, yeah, there's, there's, there's large variants in the different things. We could be, you know, we could be talking about abuse and maybe people should be in jail or we could be talking about something very different, you know, so it's hard to know exactly what we're talking about. But yeah, encountering broken people in the church shouldn't be a reason that you turn away from Christianity. If you've got to know your Bible, it's actually something you should expect because the New Testament is full. The New Testament letters are all about, you know, the leaders of the church writing on behalf of the Lord, saying, church, you guys need to do better. This is looking bad. You're not looking like Jesus. So we shouldn't be real surprised when the church is a place full of broken people. [00:23:28] Speaker C: And this is where the conversation puts the church in a no win situation. Right? Because on the one hand, people want to say the church should be a hospital for the broken, not a museum, you know, of the saints or, you know, that sort of dichotomy. It's like, okay, well, if it's a, if it's a hospital of broken people, then guess what, you're going to get hurt coming into a situation with nothing but broken people. Because hurt people hurt people. And so you can't expect the church to be a hospital for the broken and not encounter brokenness. And brokenness has sharp edges from which we also can get cut. That's what it means to enter into the fray of a relationship. It's that you're opening yourself up to an emotional vulnerability that can also hurt you as well. Like to go to a place where you're not going to get hurt, that just doesn't exist, where there's people around. Right, Good. [00:24:19] Speaker B: Okay, this is an interesting question that came in. How do we know if something is spiritual? Warfare versus our flesh versus the fallen nature of our world. World, flesh, spiritual warfare. How do you distinguish? [00:24:40] Speaker C: I mean, I guess, I guess, you know, we can, we can parse things out and try to categorize things, but the objective should always be the same, that we're pursuing Christ in his righteousness and holiness. So whether it, whether you're fighting against your flesh or demonic forces or just the influence of a broken culture, either way, the remedy is to keep our eyes on Jesus, walk in step with the Holy Spirit and pursue the things of the kingdom. Now, I mean, I don't want to sidestep the question. I mean, if we're talking about true spiritual, demonic things, that's why the Bible calls us to be discerning of the spirits. That's why God has, you know, ordained pastors and elders to help walk into the situations. I've. People have reached out to me at times and I'm sure you guys as well, and said, I'm dealing with this overtly demonic thing. And we've entered into that relationship and it, it is, it's, it's wickedly dark sometimes. It's just them making poor choices and knowing better, but choosing to do what they know is wrong. And we can't always blame the devil for that sort of stuff. [00:25:40] Speaker A: Yeah, the world, the flesh and the devil are the three enemies of God's people. And that's essentially what's named there in the question. And when I say the world, I mean the worldly influences, not the people of the world, were actually fighting for their salvation. But so I think in many ways the answer is always yes. All three of those are probably involved in most of the situations that you're going to face. And all three of those are considered spiritual warfare. We're fighting against our sinful nature that's inside of us, the enemy behind our lines. We're fighting against the devil who's out there and has lots of power and forces working against us. We're fighting against the influence of the world that is allied with the devil and our sinful nature. So all those things are always taking place, I would say. But yeah, you can have more or less what would probably be called supernatural elements in your fight. There could be more or less of those. And like you said, I think sometimes people are tempted in either direction. Sometimes people are tempted to say, well, you know, the devil and demons, you know, that's too spiritual and I won't think about that. Or people err on the other side and they say, yeah, the devil made me do it. And they just err on that side entirely instead of taking some. Some of their own accountability and just saying, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have put myself in that situation where it was very easy to fall into sin. So you can err on either side of that. [00:26:57] Speaker B: We had a question that involved Satan here and I think this is a great question. If there wasn't sin in heaven, then how was Lucifer jealous or wanting to be like God? Wasn't heaven perfect? How did that all start before even the fall with Adam and Eve? [00:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we don't have a real concrete answer on that one from Scripture, but yeah, we know that Lucifer, who was an angel, apparently had the capacity to turn against God, commit treason and fall. That's what we see in the scriptural storyline. You know, how is that possible? God, you know, made it that way. That opportunity was there and was possible and Satan chose that direction. [00:27:45] Speaker C: Yeah, and I'd say that that is. That question is actually the problem of evil. People think the problem of evil is why do bad things happen to good people? That's actually not the problem of evil that theologians have wrestled with throughout the ages. The problem of evil is the existence of the potential of evil in a perfect setting. And I think we go back to the notion of, well, that's where freedom of the will comes in. To have a true freedom of the will means to true righteousness or wickedness. Now, when you choose wickedness, then the will becomes in bondage to it. That's. That's the truly, truly nefarious aspect of sin, is it keeps our will in bondage. This is the conversation I have quite often with people is, well, what about free will? It's like, well, we had it and we do in a sense that you can choose lucky charms or frosted flakes, but we have a brokenness in our will that we are. We have a proclivity to evil and wickedness until the Holy Spirit redeems us and calls us to a righteousness. And so do we have free will? We have a bondage of the will that our free will has been been broken and is held in bondage by sin. But going back to the notion, I want to echo initially what John said is there's. We don't necessarily know the answer to that because the Bible doesn't give us super clear answers on that. [00:28:58] Speaker B: All right, we have one more or a couple more questions on spiritual beings. I think we've done whole episodes on this topic, but some questions on the nephilim. So I know that we've collected those. That's one of our most commonly asked questions. I know it was. Also, I get hot in the Christian news again because apparently the movie David, there was some questions on. [00:29:23] Speaker C: Oh, oh, the way they depict Goliath. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So can you give just a quick explanation of how you view the Nephilim? And especially if somebody's listening or here that doesn't even know what that means. Where. Where do we get that from? [00:29:39] Speaker C: I don't want to give a quick one. I want to talk about it for us tonight. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Maybe we'll do a bonus podcast where. [00:29:46] Speaker C: We'Re going to have to. [00:29:47] Speaker B: All right, John, can you give us a little overview? [00:29:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:51] Speaker A: In Genesis 6, leading into the flood, where all of humanity is destroyed besides Noah and his family, we have this talk of the sons of God and the daughters of men intermarrying and having offspring, and that leads into the flood. So it's seen as a very, very bad thing. So one interpretation of that is to say that those were fallen angels, demons that intermarried with human women and then had children, and then those became sort of supernatural demigod, like, you know, half human, half demon kind of beings. Another interpretation of that, and I'll just be honest, I think this one is probably a little bit. I think this one makes more sense in context. Whenever you're trying to understand the Bible, you got to read it in context, right? So when you read Genesis 4 and 5, what you've got is the story of first Cain and Abel, right? And Cain kills his brother, and then another brother is born, Seth. And then Genesis chapter five is the story of the line of Seth, the good line, people who follow the Lord, and then the line of Cain, people who are not following the Lord, who are walking in sin. And I think in Genesis 6, what you have is those two lines. The sons of God, the good line, and the daughters of men, the not so good line, intermarrying. And that what we have now is the end of two different families, one walking with the Lord and one not. And I think that's what leads us to the flood of, hey, sin has fully penetrated all of humanity, and now something different needs to be done about it. I think that's how we get to the flood. That's my take on it. I think it's one of those parts of scripture that is pretty tough and there is some lack of clarity. [00:31:24] Speaker C: So, I mean, the flood wiped out all traces, Right. I debate both sides of my head. Sometimes I take the more natural understanding that John kind of described. Sometimes I'M more inclined to take more of the fantastic side of giants and the true spiritual interacting with human women. But did they actually ask about the David movie or are you just saying that? [00:31:51] Speaker B: No, I just know that that's come up. And actually when someone here, I told them that we had a Nephilim question, they said, that's in the David movie. I think. I think that there's something related to that. I had two. [00:32:04] Speaker C: Number one, the David movie is awesome. [00:32:07] Speaker B: I missed almost all of it because my youngest was very afraid of the Amalekites. And so I did make the rest of the movie in the lobby with a crying child. But I hear it's a great movie. [00:32:18] Speaker C: Did you see it? Did you see it? No. So Goliath comes out of the Philistine camp and all the Philistines are brown, darker skinned. But then Goliath comes out and he's. He's massive. I don't want to ruin it for everyone. He's massively giant, but he's pretty pale. [00:32:34] Speaker A: Wait, he's a giant? [00:32:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:36] Speaker A: You ruin spoiler. [00:32:40] Speaker C: You should have already seen it. So I'm gonna spoil it. Yeah. So I think that's probably where it comes in. And so it doesn't explicitly say it in the movie, but some of the online commentary is. It's. It's an allusion to the fact that he's a descendant of the Nephilim. [00:32:51] Speaker A: Sure. [00:32:52] Speaker B: And we have a whole podcast. Focus an episode on it. [00:32:55] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it's going back a little ways, but we do. [00:32:58] Speaker B: So maybe we can, we can pin that somewhere up high. All right, so I thought this was an interesting personal question here, but I don't know if people are going to want to use this against us in the future. But one of the questions was, what are your biggest fears? Oh, you can approach that however you want. [00:33:22] Speaker C: I know mine's my really simple. And I, and I say I don't mean simple as in like simplistic, because I know people who are, who are living out the fear that I. I have in my own heart. But probably my greatest fear is that my children would walk away from the Lord. That's why I am just my number one concern in regards to peace church and my ministry is that my kids love the fact that I'm a pastor. When my kids start waxing or waning on their love of me being a pastor, then. Then I would probably consider passing off the baton because my kids come first. And so my greatest fear is that my kids would not grow to continue to love and walk with Jesus. [00:34:08] Speaker A: I was gonna say clowns, but that's a very. That was a good, deep answer. [00:34:16] Speaker B: They are scary. [00:34:18] Speaker A: I know. They totally are scary. [00:34:20] Speaker B: What about your biggest fear? A very large clown. Maybe a very. [00:34:25] Speaker A: The bigger. [00:34:26] Speaker B: The Nephilim clown. [00:34:29] Speaker A: Although the tiny ones, I mean, they're terrifying as well. What Ryan said is really. Yeah, I think anything having to do with my kids is near the top. But because you said that already, I'll just say another one of mine that's maybe near the top. I would say there's fear for my kids is number one. Probably number two would be wasting my life. My other biggest fear, coming to the end, spending eternity going, man, I missed it. [00:34:56] Speaker C: Yep. [00:34:57] Speaker A: I didn't use it for what God wanted me to use it for. [00:35:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I can answer this one. I think you guys hit the big two spiritual ones, I mean, in a very pastoral way with the things I've walked through with people. I almost can't even talk about it without just picturing some people. But of course, your child walking away from the faith. But even, just, even a believing child, a parent losing a child. Every time I walk through with parents who have lost a child, I just always think no one should have to bury their own kids. And you feel the curse of sin and you feel the death the heaviest as an older person. Barry's a young person and I, I had a. A friend of mine in my college years who died in a motorcycle accident. And I remember talking to his parents and I just said, I, you know, I had my. I talked to him later after I had my own kids, and I said, I just don't know how I would continue on. And they, they gave me a profound response, but they just said, God gives you grace. And I can't even imagine. But that's where I saw the hope of Jesus in one of the most profound ways that I've ever seen another person walk with him. [00:36:22] Speaker C: I just did a funeral for a one year old a month or two ago and same thing, you just see these parents walk through and it's like, okay, you stop doubting grace. God's ability to sustain. [00:36:36] Speaker B: This is an interesting one, especially in light of what you preached on today, Ryan, talking about the Bible being God's word. What are the differences between the different Bible translations or versions? And are there any that you would specifically warn us to stay away from? [00:36:57] Speaker C: So the differences are just going to be different in obviously the way that they would translate certain Hebrew and Greek sentences. I mean, you can't, you can't go word for word. Like literally just line up Greek and Hebrew number one. Hebrew goes from left to right. You can't line it up and just go the direct word underneath. That would make no sense in English. So there's always going to be some liberty in taking a Greek thoughts put into words and try to restructure that into English. And anyone who works in translation knows there's good at times there's going to be different ways to rightly say the same thing. And so that's, I mean the difference in translations is just different, different approaches to how much you do want to lean into word for word versus like thought for thought. So some, some translations are going to take like, like a Greek sentence. Okay, I know what they're trying to say. I'm going to try and make it in the most fluid English way possible. That's more of a thought to thought. Thought for thought versus taking a Greek sentence and saying, okay, there's, there's key words in there that I want to make sure I give the most accurate English translation to. So you, you want to make sure you incorporate those words, even if it makes the sentence sound a little clunkier in English. So that's kind of like the spectrum, like thought for thought going hyper word for word. We think that the ESV does the best job of blending the two. It leans word for word. So we like the esv, but there's other great translations that we are happy for people to use. Things that I would caution people away from would be, number one, the message isn't the translation. The message is a great commentary or retelling of what the Bible says. I think it's okay to read for a very artistic interpretation of what's being said. But I would not say the message should be your primary translation that you use. That would probably be the one that. [00:38:56] Speaker A: I, I mean it calls itself a paraphrase. [00:38:57] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like a paraphrase. [00:38:58] Speaker A: Very few people know that. But I mean Eugene Peterson's goal was to write a paraphrase, not a translation. [00:39:03] Speaker C: Yeah, that was his express goal too. But I mean, I'm reading a book right now by a Christian mystic who's have relies heavily on the message. And so I know it's out there. Nasb, New American Standard Bible is going to be probably more word for word than the esv. So that's why I think it sounds a little bit more academic or clunky. Then you've got, on the other side of the spectrum, you've got like the NIV that's going to lean more thought for thought and less word for word. I'd say the, I would, I would say the more recent NIV translations are not things I typically lean towards. I love the NIV 1984. They don't make that in print anymore. I think that's great. But I think like the TNIV and the NIV 11, those are ones I typically don't counsel people to. The CSB is a more recent one. That's a faithful translation, but it does take some liberties that I just can't get on board with. Like they, in many, in many places, like in the Psalms, they change the word blessed to happy. Like happy is the man who walks not in the council of the wicked or sits in the seat of scoffers. I just, I just can't, I can't get that. But I think it does a great job with other, other translations. So I don't know, I'm probably rambling. [00:40:12] Speaker A: On, but that's great. Yeah, I think you cover word for word versus thought is kind of the two philosophies in translation. The other thing that does sneak in and we don't have to talk in detail about this, but you know, anybody trying to accomplish anything has some kind of an agenda. Right. And so translation committees are no exception to the rule. So there are some translations where the, the translation committees are committed to a certain type of agenda, whether that be using gender neutral language or, or things like that. Yeah, so that. Yeah, that's present on some of those. [00:40:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Like the NIV is one of the reasons we didn't follow suit at Peace Church when it was time to get new pew Bibles. We didn't go with the NIV. We went the, with the, with the ESV man. Ten years ago now, maybe 2011 is. [00:40:58] Speaker A: When the new NIV came out. [00:40:59] Speaker C: So yeah, so you have somewhere around there because the new, the new NIV would train change things from like what would be an example like Moses father's house to, to Moses parents. And that's just like a small example of trying to use more gender inclusive language that actually changes the word and maybe makes it more conducive for modern ears. But it's not actually what the Bible said. It said the father's house. It could have said the parents house or mother and father. So that's just a. Yeah. Example. That's why we ended up not updating with the new NIV and went with the esv. [00:41:34] Speaker B: All right, we have three different questions that have all come in live here about Questions coming in from wives who are asking about how to help their husbands, who struggle to be a spiritual leader in their family, who don't prioritize church attendance. And I'm looking for the last one, but it was on the same themes. So what would be your encouragement to Christian women? How do they best. Yeah. Encourage their husbands? [00:42:09] Speaker C: What does that look like? Yeah. [00:42:11] Speaker A: Based on the questions you're seeing, would you say those husbands are Christians or not? [00:42:15] Speaker B: It seems like all three of them are men who are Christians but are not stepping into a Christian leadership role in their families and their homes. [00:42:28] Speaker A: I'd say that's something that we come across quite a bit, actually. [00:42:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:31] Speaker A: Women having that question or that concern. I think our women's ministry, women's Bible study, is a great place to find some fellow sisters in Christ to find encouragement and even practical advice about how to go through that situation. You look like you had something you were ready to say. [00:42:47] Speaker C: Well, I always love to give men left hook. So I'll talk in a minute. [00:42:52] Speaker A: Yeah, so give them to Pastor Ryan and he'll set him straight. [00:42:55] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, I think sometimes women, in their desire to see their husbands lead, they take the approach of trying to drop hints. They're just constantly dropping hints. Maybe we should go to church together or maybe we should do this. And they're very kind about it. I put it that way. They're kind in their approach. And I think sometimes women need to know you're speaking to a man and they're not. We're not good at reading between the lines. I would encourage women to say, I don't feel like you're leading me spiritually and I want you to. So can we talk about how to make that happen? Because I believe in you. I married you because I love you, and I believe in the man that God's calling you to be. And I believe in the marriage that God's called us to take part in. So can we talk about how we can get on track with God's plan for our house? Invite him into a conversation that's. That also honestly gives an assessment to where things are. I think in our. In our world of especially. I'll just be very open, like, especially with complementarian world that we live in that I think is biblical. I think that means that women can't ever speak up. And we're saying. We're not saying that at all. You have a voice, use it. You know, you're equal. You're just made in the image of God as he is so have an honest conversation with your husband about how you feel about these things. Because there are men in our men's ministry that would love, love to walk alongside a man, whether it's a brother or a younger brother, and talk about how he can get on track with being the man of the house that God's called him to be. Pastors and elders. We'd love to have these conversations. So my encouragement to women is to be very clear and direct, not condemning at all. That's not going to be helpful, but clear and direct in the desires, not just that a woman has, but in the picture that she sees that we project as a church of what it means to have a godly house where the husband sits at the head of the table, who leads his family in the ways, in the knowledge of the Lord with grace, strength, and love, and the woman comes alongside him to support him in his work, as together they see their house become a place of Christian flourishing. [00:45:07] Speaker A: I think the specific examples that you gave of what to say were really good because, yeah, you do need to be clear because we're not great at. [00:45:17] Speaker C: Picking up clear but not condemning, right? [00:45:19] Speaker A: Clear but not condemning. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, if you've ever lived through a Valentine's Day, you know, your husband's probably not very good at picking up hints or we just don't do that kind of thing. [00:45:26] Speaker C: But they don't read the Valentine card, man. They just grab one. [00:45:29] Speaker A: Right? [00:45:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:30] Speaker B: My wife doesn't need Valentine's Day gifts, and I don't know what. [00:45:34] Speaker A: I mean, he didn't pick up, give them to her. [00:45:36] Speaker B: Are you telling me I'm missing something? [00:45:39] Speaker A: I'm not here to tell you that. We'll talk about it later. So you want to be clear, but, yeah, not condemning. It's because that's just from what I've seen, that's going to make the husband just be more defeated and less likely to actually provide leadership. Instead. I think it's testimony to my wife and her wisdom, her humility and kindness in the way that she interacts with me is that. And I'm better and better at picking up on it. But it's usually something along the lines of, honey, I love you so much, and I'm so thankful for your leadership. And would you help us in this way or would you help us lead in this way? It's couched in this. I love you, I affirm you, I'm excited for you to lead. And then here's my question and, you know, help lead me forward in this Not a, not a, you know, nagging or a hitting and just being like, you're, you're a terrible leader. You need to do better. [00:46:38] Speaker C: Exactly. I think men often respond to the words they're. They're given. And if women are lead off by saying, you're failing, you're terrible, you're a terrible. Like, that's not motivating to a man. That's not going to make him want to turn around. At least not. [00:46:53] Speaker A: It can be motivating coming from another man, but not from your wife. Yeah. So in men's ministry, we talk to each other. [00:46:59] Speaker C: I was gonna say, like, men don't respond well. Like, I think in, in the home for that. But among brothers, right. There is an iron sharpening iron that needs to happen. [00:47:07] Speaker B: And, and yeah, my encouragement is make sure you're going to a church then where your husband is being encouraged to do just that. And our hope is we're trying to keep growing in this more and more. But that Peace church is a church that. Where wives aren't going to have to say that as much because hopefully the pastors and elders are calling men towards that. So at men's conference, at men's Bible study, the one thing I'll add, and I'll make the caveat that I've always been very clear. I know I'm not the most masculine man that's out there, especially here in West Michigan. Out in California, I was pretty manly. Not here, I felt pretty manly there, but not so much anymore. [00:47:57] Speaker A: You drove a truck back then. [00:47:59] Speaker B: I will just say a lot of times when I encounter this question from women, most of the time it's a very valid concern. Their husbands are coming short in an area. But I've also experienced some great responses to a little bit of challenge to make sure that you're not viewing traditional feminine qualities. You're not equating that with spirituality and being a spiritual leader. And you're not forgetting that one of the things the Bible tells men to do is to provide for their families. So when, if your husband works really hard and is providing well for your family, there's a spiritual nature into what he's doing. And I've even been in community groups where I know that there's been some of the men who are there who are have some of the deepest faith and some of the strongest faith are quietest. And they're not always chatting, chatting, chatting. I'm a talker, so some people think, oh, he must really love God in the Bible because he talks about it all the time. But there's some deep wells, too. And so I encourage women to. I'm not excusing men who aren't stepping up, but also make sure that you're not expecting him to, you know, act like how people will in a women's Bible study, maybe, where there might be a little bit more dialogue. [00:49:22] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe I just get in trouble. [00:49:25] Speaker B: With what I just said. We're good. Okay. I'll find out from everyone else here. All right. We got a little bit of time left. So. Again, there's so many questions. I'm really thankful for all the questions being sent in. Sometimes I skip over the longer questions because I'm trying to just keep moving here. But we got a long question with a lot of context. But let me just try to sum it up very quickly. It's a conversation of a woman and her sister, and they're kind of landing in different places. I don't know who's who even where the person who's asking the question is landing. But basically they're saying, okay, is it. We say that grace alone saves us, but then we hear things about obedience and how that reflects that you've been saved. So help us to understand that is how can we believe in grace alone? But then we also talk about this responsibility of sanctification. How does all of that tie together? Because certainly you come to peace long enough, you'll. You'll hear there's some things God wants us to do. How does that work together with free gift, no strings attached? [00:50:43] Speaker A: Great question. That's a question that people have been asking for a long, long time. I think a passage is like in James, right, James 2. 24, that faith without works is dead. So one of the ways that we try to clarify the relationship is to say that if you don't have faith, then you don't have eternal life. But if your faith lacks any fruit, then maybe you don't actually have faith. Or to say that works are not the root, but they're the fruit is a fancier way of saying it. So, yeah, we don't contribute anything to our salvation in terms of works, except for the sin that made it necessary. It's only by receiving Jesus gift that we're saved. And yet after you receive Jesus gifts, if the Holy Spirit is dwelling inside of you, then there should be fruit. You should be growing in good works. [00:51:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that the Christian will work unto the Lord for the good of the kingdom and for his family as a response to the grace he's been given, not in order to receive it, we are given this grace, we're given the salvation, and then we respond to that. And that will become evident in our lives. As John noted, it's the fruit that we bear throughout our lives proves that we are rooted in the Gospel. [00:51:59] Speaker B: Yeah. When this question was really hot button in, like, the scholarly world, they started to come up with camp names. There was the free grace side and the lordship salvation side. It's like, well, I don't want to be not free grace. We believe in that. And I believe Jesus is Lord. And so the lordship people would say, hey, if you're not living with Jesus, can't be your Savior, not your Lord. If you're not living in obedience to him, it's showing that you haven't been saved. And then the other side would say, well, that sure sounds like you're saying faith plus works then. And I've always just used the language now to try to cut through that of transforming grace, that it is absolutely grace, but grace by its nature transforms us to be more and more like Christ. And so that's. That's an ongoing question, and we appreciate you sending it in. Okay, some quick hits because we've gotten two questions on this. Should Christians study philosophy? Is studying philosophy dangerous for Christians? Two different questions there. [00:53:08] Speaker C: No, I think we should. I. I'm two credits shy from a philosophy minor. I think philosophy is great. You actually. Paul cites quotes some of the philosophers of his time, and especially at Mars Hill in Acts, he leans into it. [00:53:23] Speaker B: This question. Do you think. I'm guessing there's a little bit of root of do not be taken captive by empty philosophies. [00:53:30] Speaker A: Well, yeah. [00:53:30] Speaker C: Don't be taken captive by it. Yeah. I mean, you still have to be discerning in it, but it's. Yeah. I had learned medieval philosophy and ancient philosophy. I'm sure you did, too. Postmodern philosophy. [00:53:39] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, lots of it. Yeah. I mean, when you're talking about philosophy, you're just talking about ideas and the history of ideas. Right? Good, good. Philosophy courses are the history of ideas, not just teaching sort of one person's philosophy on life. But, yeah, you've got to understand those in order to better share the gospel with people, in order to better understand teaching of the Bible, I think so. There's nothing wrong with encountering other ideas, even if they are opposed to the Bible. But you shouldn't be taken captive by them. Don't give in to them. [00:54:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I know in the classes I've taken, some of those classes have helped me not to not to always share the explicit gospel, but in conversations, gospel conversations where somebody makes an assertion about their worldview to be able to dialogue like, yeah, I still remember in a philosophy book of reading, the problem with skepticism, of you can't know anything is asking the question, how do you know that? [00:54:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:35] Speaker B: And then it kind of starts to poke holes and broken worldviews and what's left, the one that holds together is the story of Jesus, what we receive in God's word. [00:54:47] Speaker A: R.C. sproul wrote a book called the Consequences of Ideas. I think it's such a great, great title. And it's a book of. It's the history of philosophy, the consequences of ideas. Ideas have shaped our world. And so to understand them makes you more able to think carefully and to share the gospel with other people. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Is there any. I mean, this person's asking, what could be dangerous about studying? Let's say maybe I'm going to fill in the blanks. Let's say we've heard stories of. We send our kids away to a university and they take one philosophy class and their professor makes them think that belief in God is silly. Jesus is not Lord and Savior. So what. What. How do we handle that aspect of maybe like modern secular philosophy, especially as it pertains to our kids? [00:55:38] Speaker C: Well, I would say just that it's. That for me, the problem's not with philosophy. The problem is with the teacher. It's not necessarily what they're learning, it's who are they learning it from? Because teachers will always come with some sort of slant on whether they want to tailor the content that they deliver to students. And especially college freshmen, if they've never been exposed to these ideas before and they've never been inoculated to it, they're going to hear thoughts that they think are revolutionary, which actually, when properly incorporated Christian thought can use to advance the gospel. So that's my response to that, is like, no, I think philosophy is a great thing to study. I think you learn the tools of logic, you learn how to spot fallacies, which are so prevalent in our day and age. But I am, I would say you do got to be concerned about who you're learning these things from. [00:56:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Philosophy or any other category. [00:56:31] Speaker C: Right. [00:56:31] Speaker A: You got to be. Watch out for bad teachers. [00:56:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:36] Speaker B: All right. Question came in. If you could ask Jesus one question today, what would it be? And you only have 30 seconds to ask it. [00:56:49] Speaker A: Did Adam have a belly button? [00:57:00] Speaker B: Ryan, can you beat that? [00:57:08] Speaker C: I mean. [00:57:12] Speaker B: I don't know how to follow that. First, I'll Tell you my first thing that comes. [00:57:18] Speaker C: I mean, I have things that come to mind, but I mean, like, for me, the spiritual answer would be like, I, anything I want to know has been revealed to me in Scripture. And like, the, the, the other questions that I can't discern through scripture, through the Spirit. I mean, I don't know if I would, man. I. Yeah, I mean, some of the fantastic questions. [00:57:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's the right answer is we believe it's, you know, God has revealed to us what he's, what we need to know, what's sufficient for us to know. I honest, I'll just be honest about the first thing that popped into my head. It just is, is something I wrestle with every day is like, how would Jesus have us live in the political landscape as it is today? [00:58:01] Speaker C: Oh, man, I'd love to see Jesus walk the streets of Minneapolis right now. [00:58:05] Speaker B: And I think we have that answer from God present in the Word. I think we need to dig a little deeper than just kind of a fantasy where you get to ask a question and get a straight answer. I don't know that Jesus would give me a straight answer. I think he might say, I already told you, read your Bible, bud. But that's the first thing that popped into my head. Okay, we got time for maybe two more questions. So I'm looking here, I'm trying to look for themes here. This is on theme with what we talked about this morning with the Bible being God's word. Do you think that there could ever be any God inspired books that are not in the Bible or any that we missed? [00:58:53] Speaker A: Hmm. [00:58:55] Speaker C: So there's two that could be up for question is when you read 1st and 2nd Corinthians, it's very clear that Paul wrote other letters to the Corinthians. First and Second Corinthians are probably actually second and fourth Corinthians. It appears that he had written a letter before First Corinthians, and it seems there's a letter between first and second. So those letters. Paul also, in his letter to the Colossians, references a letter that he wrote to Laodicea. He says to the Colossians, read the letter I wrote to Laodicea and send this to the Laodicea. The oceans, I don't know, people, Laodicea. So there's three that if they were somehow discovered, I think would be worthy of the conversation. But ultimately, I think what we have and what we've had for the last 2000 years is sufficient. As we talked about this morning. [00:59:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I'VE heard some guys hold out that possibility that we could discover that someday. So one of the tests that we used, or that Christians used back in the day, when we were evaluating and recognizing the canon of Scripture, was the test of universality, was it used a ton throughout the church. And so I guess my argument would be that if we haven't discovered it yet, it must not have been well used by the early church, therefore, it doesn't belong in the Bible. So, yeah, I would say canons closed. We've got what God deems sufficient for his church. [01:00:27] Speaker B: All right, well, I end with this, and I'll be honest. This was my favorite question that came in all night, and I'm actually. [01:00:35] Speaker C: Have you been waiting for it or did it just come in? [01:00:37] Speaker B: No, I've had it since the beginning of the night, but I think it's. [01:00:40] Speaker A: Been holding out on us. [01:00:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. You guys will understand when I say it, but someone asks, how can members of our church pray for the pastors at peace? And I can start, and then we'll go. John and Ryan, we'll have you wrap up the night here. I actually just had lunch with a member of our church. He asked me to go out to lunch. We got to know each other a little bit more, and we drove back in his truck, and we were in the parking lot at the church, and he asked this question. He said, hey, how can I be praying for you, specifically for the other pastors? And I was not expecting it at all. But when I started to answer, I started to choke up because I just said, and. And our whole world's so busy right now. Everybody's busy. But I just started explaining all that God's been doing here and how awesome it's been, but also that we're a little tired, too, because we're going hard and we want to be tired because that means God's doing stuff and he's using us and we're thankful. But I actually, like, choked up a little bit because we all got families and we're in the thick of it still. With all of our kids ages, we are relatively young. I know we used to get asked that, meet the pastors. How do you guys do it? You're all so young. And we've noticed over the last five years, people don't ask that anymore. So I don't know if we're aging. Ryan still looks like he's young. John's starting to get a little salt and pepper. I'm losing my hair altogether. But, yeah, if you could just pray for us. As we're keeping up with all that God is doing, it's awesome. And we wouldn't have it any other way, but we're going, we're doing a lot by God's grace and it does get tiring, but we wouldn't have it any other way. John, what would you say? How could they be praying for us? [01:02:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I just pray that we are faithful to the word and righteous in our lives. That's just. Unfortunately, those are the ways that pastors fail, right? Is they're either unfaithful to God's word or they're unfaithful, usually to their bride. So I'm not saying that any of us are in particular risk of that or anything like that, but just, just pray that, Just pray for that we are good godly men, that we, and that we don't stray from the hard truths of God's word. [01:03:12] Speaker B: It does help that we're not cool pastors. Yeah, I always think when I see all these guys fall all over, they were too cool and no, no one thinks we're cool. We're just, we're just trying to be face we're lame. [01:03:25] Speaker A: And apparently people think we're old, so. [01:03:27] Speaker B: Yeah, no, but seriously, I mean, I think when some churches experience a lot of growth, people get tempted to deviate from the word and think of themselves as more than they are. And thankfully no one thinks we're very cool. So we just keep plugging away. [01:03:47] Speaker C: So one of the things that I do, one of the important things I do in my job that a lot of people don't see is I lead our administrative elder board, so our decision making board as a church. I, I, I'm the chair of our administrative elders and we, we pray together and we'd like to study and learn as leaders. And we read a book together. And in the book it had a, it had a, had a statement about leadership that to this day is my favorite statement on leadership and the one I hate the most because of how much I, I resonated with it. And it said in this book, it was written by a pastor, it said leadership is failing people at a rate they can absorb. And I just felt that because I feel so inadequate for what I'm doing. And you know, my first thought to how can we pray? Is I immediately start thinking about other things like pray for the church, pray that we grow deeper, pray that the church cares for one another. And I really want to answer the question with integrity that how you pray for me is praying that I am at peace. With not being able to do everything. Because I am a leader who wants to go to bed dead tired. I want to die tired. I want to give it all on the table, on the field. I want to run hard into the moment I breathe my last breath. I want to do it all. But I know I can't. And as a pastor, I've. I've failed people all the time. And it's because I'm broken and I'm not Jesus. And so I'd say for me, pray for me, that I'm at peace with not being able to do it all. Because it's really hard. [01:05:38] Speaker B: All right, well, hey, thank you so much again for being here. We so appreciate you and as we always share, go now in his peace. God bless you. Have a great night. Have a great week. [01:05:50] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, everybody. [01:05:55] Speaker C: Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone today. You can follow That's Good Question and find more episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. That's Good Question is brought to you by Round the Table, a ministry of Peace Church in Meadowville, Michigan.