Episode Transcript
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Welcome to that's a Good Question, a podcast where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language.
If you or someone you know has questions, please submit them to roundthetable.co questions.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of that's a Good Question. I'm John, and I'm here today with my good friend, Pastor Ryan.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Hey, Pastor John. How's it going? 1.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: We are here the day after Easter Sunday. That's right. Huge day. And excited to talk about all things Easter. So last episode last week, we talked about Holy Week from Palm Sunday all the way through Good Friday and even a little bit about Silent Saturday.
Now we're gonna pick up on Easter Sunday and talk some more about that first. Maybe we should talk about this.
Easter Sunday is a huge day in the life of the church.
Why is Easter Sunday such a big day in the life of the church?
[00:01:04] Speaker B: So that's a great question, and I want you to pick up on it, too. But I think ultimately the reason we'd say that is because the Bible basically says that our faith hinges on whether or not Jesus rose from the dead.
And this is the day that we formally celebrate that. Now, clearly, we, as Christians, we celebrate the resurrection every single week. It is essential to the gospel.
But this is the day where we recognize that specific day in history. Right. And so that's why it is so important to us. This is the make it or break it for us.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned we. We celebrate every Sunday because it's easy to forget that, number one. But also because every once in a while, I would say maybe two to three times a year, somebody will just come up to me and say, hey, how come we don't do Sabbath on the Saturday anymore?
You know, it's because the resurrection is on Sunday. And so that. I mean, it's just another moment to remember that. That, yeah, Jesus rose from the grave on the first day of the week on Sunday. And so that's why for Christians, Sunday's the day of the worship. Of worship, instead of Saturday, which is the Old Testament.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: Sabbath, the last day of the week. That's that key pivot.
So, yeah, like you said, I mean, everything hinges on the resurrection. So that's why it's the. The thing, the Sunday in the life of the church. And also one of the reasons it's so big for us and for so many other churches is that it's one of those couple of times in the year when people who don't normally come to church come to church.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: So that's just another, like, very practical reason. There's still us.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
There's still a tradition in our broader culture that people go to church for weddings and funerals, Christmas and Easter.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: And so we do know that that is a day where. And I recognize that. And even if you listen to the sermon I preached, I recognize I'll call it out and just say, I know there's people here who only come on Easter, and I don't want to shame them or put them down. You know, I just said, I recognize that's a fact. And so if that's you, I have a message for you. And I try to just clearly share the gospel with them, getting their specific attention. But it is, it's theologically the day that makes or breaks our faith. But practically speaking, as ministry leaders, we have to plan for what we know to be true, that there's people in our culture who will only come on that day. And a great amount of them, it is always.
Well, actually, I can't say that.
Depending on the arc of what's happening in your church, I'd say traditionally, you can bet on it, that being your largest attended day for, for most churches
[00:03:22] Speaker A: in America, it's the biggest attended Sunday of the year.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: There's only reason I gave a caveat is for, for us at our church at Peace Church last year, actually, Christmas Eve was bigger.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: But we're on a. We're on a major growth trend.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Well, being in Michigan, everybody escapes from Michigan for spring break, so that's a big key in, in how that all plays out. But, yeah, it's one of those times of the year when the most, I would say at least the most new people come to church. People who don't normally come to church, they come. And so for us, we always tell Christians, people who are already part of the church, that, hey, this is the opportunity to invite somebody who doesn't normally come to church because they're more open to it than normal. But, yeah, I've always appreciated that every year you, I think in some way you address those who come to church only on Christmas and Easter in a very loving way. Just try to speak to them.
So what are some of the things that you try to say to them to encourage them? Like, hey, you know what? There's. There's a next step for you.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: That's not just coming once or twice a year.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Well, yeah, so I try to do it in a loving path, pastoral way. And I know there's people who maybe take opportunity to maybe like lovingly prod them in a way. That's just not my approach.
I'm not saying I can't say hard things. I think we all know that I do. But for those people who I know, who only come on those days, I try to say something in a way that reminds them that we're not doing this because of tradition. This isn't just something that we do because it's expected from the broader culture that people go to church on Christmas and Christmas and Easter. We do this because we're celebrating something that is real, something that historically actually happened and still happens today in the sense that the gospel still goes forth, the Spirit's still alive.
So I'm trying to say something that will invite people to enter into a headspace and a heart space to make them realize this is something that we do, that we want you to be a part of, because it's what God is doing in the world.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: And so, yeah, don't just make this part of your cute annual holiday.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: Like, this is. This is. This is real.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. This isn't. This isn't. We have turkey on Thanksgiving. We go to church on Easter. This isn't. This isn't in that category.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's why I wanted to highlight that, because it's not. Yeah. The go. So if you're listening to this and you came for the first time on Easter Sunday to Peace Church or some other church, then, hey, praise God that you were there. That was awesome. The goal here is not to. Not to shame anybody. The goal is to say, yeah, this is not just going to church on Easter Sunday. Or Christmas isn't just like a cute tradition. We, We. We worship those days. On those days, because it's real. Because Jesus really did rise from the grave.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: One of the phrases I will use at both Christmas and Easter is for those of you who are only here for Christmas or for Easter, what I. What my typical phrase is, I say something to the effect of I pray that I say something to you that's of eternal value. And here's. Here's what I have to say. Yeah. So I do. I mean, I specifically will call them out because I want to get their attention. Right. Because if they're doing this just out of tradition, then they're probably doing this just, you know, part of the motions. I want to break them out of that and be able to speak something true while for the few moments that God's given me to be able to say something to them. So.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And one of the Reasons I thought of that is because actually, yesterday on Easter, I did talk to a couple of people.
I talked to a couple of people that said this was their first Sunday at the church.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: But they had listened to the podcast a few times before.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: This podcast.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: This podcast.
I just have kind of had that in my mind of like, yeah, if you're. If you're out there listening and you only come to church on Christmas or Easter, then we want you to hear you. You know the goal. No shame. But we want you to know there's so much more. So, yeah, come on back.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: Go deeper.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: All right. So if everything is all about. If Easter is the pivotal moment in the life of the church and in the life of the Christian story, let's talk about that a little bit.
Why is it that the resurrection is so important? People talk all the time about how Jesus died for our sins.
Why is it not just he died for our sins, why is it also he rose from the grave? Why is that important?
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Well, so for me, yes, it's. It's. It's the thing that makes or breaks the faith, but it's also the culmination. Meaning Jesus rising from the dead is powerful in and of itself, but it's also on the heels of 33 years of Jesus preaching and teaching, faithfully living before the Lord, living a perfect life, perfectly modeling what it is to follow God and teaching the truths of God through the gospel, through his life. And so the reason it's so important is not just because he rose from the dead, but it's also, again, the culmination of his entire life. It's all that he pointed towards, which also then, as we talked about yesterday, it proves that he was who he said he was, and then it proves everything that he said was true.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Exactly. So when we. Because there's another common question that we always get around this time of year of, you know, Good Friday, we get it. Easter doesn't really matter. You know, we talk about Jesus. Jesus died for your sins.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Yeah, great.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: But does it really matter that he came back from the grave? Could he have just died and stayed dead? You know, does it make a difference? And the answer is, it makes a world of difference. It's a. It's a huge difference. So a few passages we could think about. Romans 4:25 says, He, Jesus was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
So the logic is, yes, Jesus's death on the cross was the. He took the punishment that we deserved for sin. But the only way we Know that that payment was accepted by God the Father is because he rose from the dead.
Otherwise, you know, we don't know. Otherwise, it's like, well, Jesus died and he said it was for us. But did it work? Yeah, you know, was what. You know, he swipes the credit card, right? Was. Was payment accepted or was it not accepted? What happened? The resurrection is proof that payment was accepted.
There's plenty of other verses we could talk about. I'll just name one or two more here. First Corinthians 15:17, it says, if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, this. This Christian religion thing, it's. It's worthless. It's just motions. And if it's not true, if Jesus didn't raise from the grave, you know, doesn't have any meaning.
Romans 1:4 is a beautiful passage at the beginning of Romans where Paul is just kind of explaining, you know, the foundations of the Gospel. And he says. He talks about Jesus and he says he was declared to be the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead. So Jesus, all through his life, like you said, he claimed a lot of things, right. He claimed that he was the Son of God, the great. I am.
He's the one. How do we know that's true? Well, because he rose from the grave. That's. That's how we know those things are true.
So the resurrection is, you know, pivotal in terms of theology. It. It's how we know it's true that our sins have been taken away. And also, it's. It's the great proof that Jesus is who he says he is. All the things that he said are true.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: And with that, we'd also say this is. It's the proof and the guarantee that what he said supersedes what anyone else has ever said.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: Any other religion or religious teachers. It all bows before the truth. That Jesus is who he said he is, that he is the embodiment of truth that he said he was. And that dying on the cross and rising again on the third day, not just the fulfillment of prophecy, but it is, as we've been talking about, is the great proof that shows he is who he said he is.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: Right. Right.
Now, talk a little bit about real quickly. We've talked about this in other episodes, even recently, so I don't want to go too far into this, but real quickly, if somebody asked, you know, why do we believe that it's true that he really did raise from the dead what are a Few things we could say about that. I'll say the first. One of. One of the first things we could say. And actually there's a. There's a great satirical video about this, about the disciples sitting around a campfire discussing this, but. Oh, yeah, yeah. But one of the, One of the ways, one point of evidence as to why we know that Jesus rose from the grave is that all but one of the disciples died for that truth.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: And the one who didn't die, it's not that he wasn't. It's not that he didn't believe. He just actually lived to those old age. Right, right. John. Yeah.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: John the apostle.
Yeah. I mean, Peter famously crucified upside down. You know, they killed him because of. Because he said that Jesus rose from
[00:11:30] Speaker B: the dead and he chose to be crucified upside down because he didn't want to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: He didn't think he was worthy.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Peter is preaching Jesus rose from the grave. They're saying, we're going to kill you. He says, Jesus rose from the grave, Peter, we're going to crucify you. No, no, do it upside down, because I don't, I don't. I'm not worthy to die the way my Savior died.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:50] Speaker A: So that kind of. Yeah, that kind of. That kind of commitment to a truth, you just can't imagine. How could all these, how could these 11 guys give their whole lives for this thing? If it was all a lie, they certainly believed it was true. So that's one important point about this.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: So. Yeah, so the notion being there, it's not just that they believed it was true. They knew it was true in the sense of they walked and talked with Jesus after he rose from the dead. Yeah. This wasn't just something. This wasn't just some great hope. They gave their lives to. People die all the time for things that they believe to be true. They knew this to be true because they said that they had encountered Christ post resurrection for the 40 days between his resurrection and ascension.
They walked, talked, ate, had meals with him, and they were willing to die for that state, for that. It's again, not like they just. They had a great hope that Jesus was the Son of God, but they didn't know for sure. They were willing to die for their claims to have walked and talked with him after his resurrection. The satirical video that you're mentioning is the notion that.
Can you imagine those guys coming, like, joke, like not actually believing that and saying, we're gonna go die for this, you know, it just. It's one of the most. It doesn't make any sense.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Yeah, they sit around a campfire and they're like, all right, this is all fake, but we're all going to go get killed for it. You know, like. Yeah, that's. That's pretty crazy.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: No, the testimony of the disciples all going to martyrdom again, except for John the Apostle John, who lives into his old age, which, though, by the way, he still endured horrendous persecution and torture, but never recanted his faith. So the testimony of the disciples is a powerful proof of the resurrection. You'd also say things like, well, the empty tomb. And not just the empty tomb, but the notion that even those who were opposed to Jesus never once claimed that there was a body.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: So when we say the proof of the empty tomb, we're not just saying because the Bible says so.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: No, that's important. Yeah. Historically, like, there's basically nobody who's saying, like, everybody pretty much affirms a man named Jesus from Nazareth, died on a cross, Roman crucifixion, and his tomb was empty on the third day. They agree about that. Of course, they have different theories for how that happened. Disagreeing with the Bible, but they all agree that that tomb was empty. We have to explain how it became.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not like. It's not. No one says, oh, it wasn't that tomb. It was the tomb two doors down.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Or his body was, you know, taken somewhere else. They all affirmed the tomb was empty and that they don't have any proof of where the body went.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So in the Bible itself, you've got the. The story, probably the first misinformation campaign, if you will, about Jesus's resurrection is that the disciples stole the body. So that's the first attempt that the religious leaders of the Jews have, and they, you know, they work with the Roman guards and they, you know, pay them to tell the story that the body was stolen, all that kind of thing. Others have said, well, he didn't really die, he was on the cross, but he, like, he swooned, but he wasn't actually dead. And then so he got pulled out. He, you know, so he came back to. To life in the tomb there and. And walked out. You know, so there's lots of other theories. None of those have any historical evidence to them. They're all just people's ideas because they don't want to accept the miracle, which I think for biblical Christianity, it's one of those things, if you believe Genesis 1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Then why would you not believe that God could raise a man from the dead?
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: So, yeah, if you're going to embrace any of the Bible, then miracles just make sense.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Exactly. There's other things that we could point to. I think when we started talking about things surrounding the account of the resurrection, like we know now the proof of Pontius Pilate, that he was an actual governor in Judea. You know, more and more factual evidence is coming out that the stories of the Scriptures are actually true. They're not fabricated, they're not narratives being written to tell a story. They're historical accounts of what had happened. And so those are some of the ways that I look back and say, yep, this is, this actually, actually happened.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the. It's the best attested historical document that we have.
We've done some teaching in the past on that, but over 5,000 copies of the New Testament in existence, going all the way back to the first hundred years after they were written. So many more, so much better attested than any other historical document we have of the Gallic wars and all kinds of other examples. So that's just a little bit, We've talked about that in other places as well. Let's talk about the difference that the resurrection makes in somebody's everyday life.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: What, what, what difference does it make for the everyday person if they believe that Jesus rose from the grave?
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So one of the things that we, we often say at peace from the pulpit is, you know, our eternal, our, our eternal life when we believe in Jesus doesn't start the moment we die, it starts the moment we believe.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: And so for us, the reason it makes sense, the reason it provides such hope every single day is because it reminds us that all of this is actually leading somewhere.
And while we know the Bible tells us that the path from here to the end is going to be marked with some pain, we know at the end of the day, God will usher in the great renewal of all things. And we believe this and we know this and we trust this and we have confidence in this because of the resurrection. So that whatever you going through in life, up or down, we know that Jesus rose again. And as the old hymn goes, we live because he lives so that whatever happens, we know that God will ultimately use for good and God will ultimately bring about a final good.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
Amen.
Romans 6, 4. Just as Christ was raised from the dead, we too will walk in newness of life.
Yeah.
Suffering, I think, is one of Those most critical or most, maybe most obvious areas of everyday life that I think about. The resurrection.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: When life's hard, when you deal with health issues, things like that. I think, you know what? One day I will have a resurrection body. Praise God.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Just as Jesus was raised, so to I, so too will I be raised.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. The promises of a renewed body that won't. Won't succumb to sickness or decay or death.
I won't get the quote exactly right, but Tim Keller, at the end of his life, when he was.
When his body was succumbing to cancer, he had said.
I think it was on a zoom call or something, he had said the phrase, if Jesus rose again, it's all going to be okay.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: And this is a man whose body was. Was succumbing, withering away to cancer, who, who knew he was going to die. And because Jesus rose again, he could say, it's all going to be okay. And that's, that's why, that's why I follow this guy. He rose from the dead, and because of that, it's all going to be okay. And again, it's not. Not that it's not going to be hard. Not that we're not going to get cancer. Not that terrible things aren't going to happen, but in the end, it's going to be good.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. That's the great hope of the Christian life.
I think another aspect to that, too is just thinking about highlighting maybe the bodily part of it. First Corinthians 15 goes out of its way to highlight that. Yeah. You're not going to just be like some kind of ghost floating around for all eternity, that we will be resurrected body and soul.
So, you know, when we die, when a believer dies, now our body rests in the ground, but our souls with the Lord in heaven.
But then on the day when Jesus returns, body and soul come back together.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. And then at the great renewal, heaven and earth become one.
We've said this before at the end of time, meaning when we enter into glory, you know, we talk about, okay, when you get there and you.
You bend down and you grab a hold of the thing that you're standing on, it's not going to be clouds, it's going to be dirt.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: It's going. It's going to be heaven and earth remade together as one.
And with that, we will have new bodies which are glorified in which we can perfectly worship God for all eternity as we continue to live with Him. And we continue to labor, but our labor won't be laborious.
It won't be burdensome. It'll be good work.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: And so these are. This is the great hope that Christianity provides. It's not just that we have life after death, but that we have good life after death.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:07] Speaker B: And it's a life where it's not marked by sickness or decay, but glory and happiness and joy.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Yeah. CS Lewis has that great line where he says.
He says. He's talking about the end, and he says, everything sad will come untrue.
That's a great line. And he kind of says, you know, I don't know how that's going to work exactly, but somehow the point is that all the pain in this life will have been worth it in the resurrection.
And that's just it. So if you're somebody who is going through something really hard right now, if you're somebody who goes on a regular basis through hard things or has limitations in life or something like that, you know, you can have hope and say, the day is coming when that will be no more.
When Jesus returns, that will be no more. When this life is over, that's going to be gone.
That's one of the great hopes of the resurrection. Pain and suffering are no more. New heaven and a new earth. Praise God for that.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: So we're using the Gospel of Mark for our Easter series this year. We've been kind of doing just big, giant steps to do Mark's gospel as we head up to Easter, in which I preached on Mark 16 yesterday for our Easter message. Mark 16, verses 1 to 8.
You're actually taking the final sermon in this sermon series. So you're preaching on it this coming week.
And I've had people ask me, and I actually had two people. And I think you might have had this question, too.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: I had somebody ask me this question,
[00:21:31] Speaker B: too, after verse eight.
So mark 16, 1, 8. No controversy.
Mark, chapter 16, verses nine through the rest of the chapter has a title or description before it goes into that section, saying some of the earliest manuscripts do not include Mark 16. 9, 20.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: And people think, well, we're preaching through the Gospel of Mark. And Pastor Ryan preached the Resurrection.
That next section. Pastor John must be preaching on that next week.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: But we see here that it says it gives some weird qualifier.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So you got it.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: What's going on with that?
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question. There's. There's really just two major sections of the New Testament. We have this notation in our Bibles. Mark 16, the long ending and a portion of John chapter eight.
So those are the part two parts of the New Testament. We've got this note and yeah, what's going on is that that part of the text is missing from some of our earliest manuscripts of the New Testament.
And as I already mentioned, we've got tons and tons of manuscripts of the New Testament going back a long ways, all the way back to the first hundred years within which they were written. So, you know, the best attested historical document. And yet we can. And there's, you know, so minimal discrepancies between copies throughout the way, you know, those who, those who copied the tax, you know, because we didn't have the printing press in the first century AD. Right. So those who hand copied the Bible and passed it down were incredibly faithful, did an incredibly good job. But we have just a couple of points where you've got these interesting differences now.
You know, these are not differences that make a difference theologically. You know, there's nothing contained in John 8 or in Mark 16 that is like, you know, would change what we believe or anything like that. So it's important to realize that we're not talking about that, but it's still something that kind of raises questions for people. So. Yeah, what is the deal? Well, the reason it's in brackets because it's not in our earliest copies. And so we really don't have strong confidence that this was originally part of what Mark wrote.
And so for that reason, we're going to preach from a gospel that we do have full confidence that is inspired by the Holy Spirit passed down for the inner for generations. It's one of those things.
There's so much that could be said.
We'll link in the show notes a great video that I would recommend on it. There's some. Plenty of great people that have talked about this topic. Wes Huff is one of those. He's an apologist. He's a really smart guy. He did a video, oh, I don't know, a year ago or so on this topic. The title of it is the Gospel of Mark is Missing Its Ending. Let me explain.
So he's a great Bible scholar, does a great job going back and explaining that issue.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: So here's the question then. So why do the Bibles still print it?
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we still print it just because it's kind of traditional. It's been in there so long mostly especially like the King James Bible. Yeah, you know, the King James Bible had such a big impact culturally that since it was in there, you know, to not have it at all. And to not talk about it at all would be kind of strange.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: So here's the question then.
Could this.
So again, we said we. We know that verses 9 to 20 don't include anything theologically problematic. It's. It's stories that you can largely find thematically elsewhere. Yeah. The New Emmaus Road and the Great Commission.
Could it be that this is actually.
This is. This is part of the. Maybe like the. Let's just say the oral tradition.
Maybe Mark didn't write it down, but it was part of the oral tradition and was included later.
So would it be right to say then therefore it should be in, or is it still right to acknowledge that it wasn't part of Mark?
[00:25:17] Speaker A: I think it makes sense to still acknowledge, like the editors of the ESV and others do, that it's probably not part of Mark. But. Yeah, I mean, there's lots of evidence from early writers that people knew about the ending, that even if. Even though some are like, well, no, it wasn't part of Mark, they seem to. They need. They seem to know about its existence, that they've, like, read it somewhere. So, yeah, I mean, we know it's old. We know it's been around a long time. There's lots of evidence of that. And yet we're just not fully confident that this was originally part of Mark's Gospel.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: So part of what I. Part of the response I'd give, because this question comes up every now and again, especially when we preach on in Mark.
One of the things I say is Mark probably didn't write this, so I'm not going to say it's inspired, but I don't think it's unhelpful in the sense of, again, like, it recounts Jesus appearing to two disciples. That's a very short, condensed version that Luke expounds. With the Emmaus Road, Mark gives the Great Commission, which Matthew also details beautifully. So again, it's not that it says anything that's wrong or things that we don't think actually happened. It's just as Mark was writing under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, we think his. His Gospel concludes at verse eight.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: And while these other parts are great things to. To read and look at, we're not going to say it's inspired in the way that everything before it comes in the Gospel of Mark.
[00:26:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And we take that super seriously, and that's why we. We do it.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So for us, it's like, I would say, you know, I had a gentleman come up and ask about it and He. He's a new. He's newer to the faith. And he was just. Was really just concerned about this. He didn't know how to categorize this, you know. And I said, hey, it's the esv, which you use, does a great job of acknowledging this wasn't part of the earliest manuscripts. And so we're not going to take it at the inspiration level. We think it's helpful and I don't mind referencing it, but when we're going to use a primary text, that won't be the primary text we use.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Right.
The ESV Study Bible is one of those resources that I recommend all the time to people. It has some great notes, explanations about it in there. So I'd recommend that also. You can find that.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: So I would say, especially because I've done a lot of ministry and missions in Appalachia. Appalachia is the snake handling part.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: So that comes from this.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: This section there's. From what they say, there's very few left, but there are snake handling churches. Who will point to this?
That is one of the things that we see.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Snake handling and drinking poison, right?
[00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, yes, and drinking poison. So that comes from this section here that we don't see that really anywhere else.
Now, you could say something to the effect of when Paul pulls on Malta, he gets bit by the snake. They think he's going to die and he survives. And they'd say, well, that's proof of this.
Okay, we can have that conversation.
But that is going to be one of those things from this section that I would say, hey, and here's why we're not going to bring this to the level of inspiration. Sure.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: I would add to that, even if, even if it was inspired, the text still doesn't command people to handle snakes or to drink poison. It's a, you know, it's an assumed sort of, if this happens, then the Lord will be with you. Kind of particularly, like.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Like if you're facing persecution or you're, you know, you're going to be martyred and the way they're going to kill you is you need to drink this poison. Or they.
It is one of those. And again, I don't want to make light of it because I've ministered to people, served people, had meal with people who handle snakes.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: And they will, they will point to this and say, it's in the Bible.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it's in the Bible. When you say the handle snakes, you mean like that they build a church service around it? That's a key part of their worship service.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: That's exactly what I mean.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: Or whoever brings out a snake and handles it.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: That's exactly what I mean. I mean, multiple snakes.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: And they keep them as. I mean, I don't know if they use the term pets, but they keep them as. They keep them for these services.
And they will actually, not just, not just that, they'll actually go into the wild and search for these copperheads and look for these snakes so that they can bring them to the church service because they think it's part of the worship service and they think it's one of the ways they demonstrate a genuine faith.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: There's some interesting documentaries out there about these practices.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah, there is. And.
And so it's one of those things where when you try to say things like, well, yes, yes, we see this printed in the Bible, but we would not bring this to the level of inspiration that we see the rest of the text, that's hard for them to hear because they see black and white words printed in the Bible and for them, that's the Bible.
And so that's why we try to.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: And it is except for these very small sections that again, are specifically called out by editors.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: And say this. Yeah, so that's the thing. Yeah. Maybe we'll have to do a longer episode or video on this at some point. Yeah, we should like something like that.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: I haven't done it much because I'm. I did it back when I was doing more like youth ministry and going on a little bit more trips than I used to. But, man, I've been to. Done, man, 10 to 15. I'd have to count, like serious mission trips in the deep parts of Appalachia. And I think I've been able to serve people from this tradition and. But it's scary. It's like, scary. Yeah, it's. But it's one of those sections like, man, we're preaching on it. We're not preaching on this, we're preaching on post resurrection, the Great Commission.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: And as I'm just sitting here with the Bible open like, oh, yeah, this is one of those parts where that's. Yeah, that's one of the things that comes out of that.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll talk more about that at some point because, yeah, we wouldn't. That. Wouldn't want that to be anybody's a stumbling block for your faith or confidence in. In Scripture, because it shouldn't be. And I think one of the reasons you know that or should know that is because the editors specifically call it out and are super honest about it and are not afraid to explain it.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: So, so, so going back, it was printed in the King King James because King James was based on a certain set of documents they had at that time, that is in the 1600s. Over the last 400 years, we have actually discovered earlier documents than what even the King James was based off of.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: And those earlier documents we've discovered actually do not include the the long ending these sections from the Book of Mark, which is why we're saying the earliest documents, meaning the documents that we know that are closest to the time of when Mark actually lived, they don't have that, even though there are later documents that do include it, which the King James was based off of.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, hey, thanks so much for the conversation, Pastor Ryan.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks, Pastor John. Thanks everyone.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Thanks everybody for listening. Hope you had an awesome Easter. Praise God for the resurrection. Have a great rest of the week.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: Thanks for listening. If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone today. You can follow that's Good Question and find more episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. That's Good Question is brought to you by Round the Table, a ministry of Peace Church in Meadowville, Michigan.
